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Thread: Maestro occupancy dimmer doesn't turn off LED bulb.

  1. #1
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    Maestro occupancy dimmer doesn't turn off LED bulb.

    I'm using a MSCL‑OP153MH occupancy dimmer switch with a single Philips 433227 light bulb, and when I try to turn the light off, it does not turn off completely, but rather flickers at a low intensity. The grounding wire is connected to the house ground, and I've tried wiring the load wires both ways, still just flickers. I have to pull out the service switch to get it to turn off.

    I've taken a video of the phenomenon: http://youtu.be/pyqHkVA74QQ

  2. #2
    Pete F.
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    Bracket, thank you for your post. The MSCL-OP153M is a digital control which always needs power. Even in the off state, there is a very small amount of electrical current that runs through the circuit. Some LEDs react to this by not turning completely off. During compatibility testing, that is one of the test criteria that we look for and, if an LED doesn't turn completely off, it would typically not pass our testing and be listed as compatible. We would recommend using an LED that appears on the Compatible Bulb List for the control that you are using.

  3. #3
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    That is pretty lame... How much current is it drawing (at all times apparently)? Would adding more bulbs help? It would be nice if it used the ground wire for power return like some other switches I've used.

  4. #4
    Pete F.
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    Since there is no industry standard for the manufacturing of LEDs, it can be very frustrating with the varying performance that LEDs experience. You could try adding more bulbs, however the only solution that we can stand behind are the ones that appear on our Compatible Bulb List.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
    Since there is no industry standard for the manufacturing of LEDs, it can be very frustrating with the varying performance that LEDs experience. You could try adding more bulbs, however the only solution that we can stand behind are the ones that appear on our Compatible Bulb List.
    I'm not sure this is a very comforting answer. So you are essentially saying that your dimmer even when OFF is consuming power. And it's the LED bulbs fault that it detects it? Instead of a compatibility chart, shouldn't you just warn people that the dimmer leaks? And I bet the leak caused by the LED indicator lamp that is always on, on the dimmer switch itself.
    Am I right?

  6. #6
    Pete F.
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    AndyC, the current draw in the off state is .15W. Because the Maestro is a digital control, it needs power on the circuit when it is off. If there wasn't, when you hit the tapswitch to turn it on, nothing would happen as there is not a physical relay inside the dimmer. Compatibility is more than just an LED reacting to the dimmer in the off state. When we do compatibility testing, we test for several different things, including LEDs not turning off. Our Compatible Bulb List shows the LEDs that passed all of our compatibility testing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
    I'm not sure this is a very comforting answer. So you are essentially saying that your dimmer even when OFF is consuming power. And it's the LED bulbs fault that it detects it? Instead of a compatibility chart, shouldn't you just warn people that the dimmer leaks? And I bet the leak caused by the LED indicator lamp that is always on, on the dimmer switch itself.
    Am I right?
    This is truly a non-standardization issue, not a Lutron issue. Some LED manufacturers are simply labeling their lamps as dimmable without listing "compatible" dimmers.

    I agree with Pete that the best way to determine compatibility is through Lutron's compatibility chart. I have had zero issues when referencing it!

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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
    AndyC, the current draw in the off state is .15W. Because the Maestro is a digital control, it needs power on the circuit when it is off. If there wasn't, when you hit the tapswitch to turn it on, nothing would happen as there is not a physical relay inside the dimmer. Compatibility is more than just an LED reacting to the dimmer in the off state. When we do compatibility testing, we test for several different things, including LEDs not turning off. Our Compatible Bulb List shows the LEDs that passed all of our compatibility testing.
    I understand why there's current running through it. The point is that if you did use a relay then it would be truly LED compatible. You do realize that even the LED Compatible bulbs you list will deteriorate faster and are possible fire hazards by having this low current running through it 24/7 when its supposed to be switched off. I think its great that Lutron addresses these things but you need to be careful because people like Troltgen just jump on a bandwagon without any understanding of the topic and will be quick to defend what you say.

    This all being said, I use Lutron and the other L brand for all dimmers. I came here to look for a LED dimmer that does indeed use a physical switch or relay to turn on and off, and has the proper dimming circuitry for LED drivers. Can you make a suggestion? I don't need night time indicator lamps or "digital" control.
    Thanks

  10. #9
    Pete F.
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    AndyC, having a physical or electronic relay is not what determines compatibility. Compatibility is determined by how the LEDs react to the dimming signal that the dimmer creates. There are several different LEDs that are compatible with the MSCL-OP153M. Fortunately, all of our products, including our digital dimmers, are tested and pass safety testing by UL, which is an independent testing facility. There is absolutely no fire hazard caused by the the .15W of current that runs through the circuit and the life of the LEDs on our Compatible Bulb List is not cut short by this either. The bulbs on this are compatible and turn off when the Maestro is in the off state.

    If you would like a C•L dimmer that has a physical relay and a bulb that has passed testing with that dimmer, please refer to our Compatible Bulb List. Our analog C•L options are the DVCL-153P, TGCL-153P, SCL-153P, CTCL-153P, AYCL-153P and the LGCL-153P.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bracket View Post
    I'm using a MSCL‑OP153MH occupancy dimmer switch with a single Philips 433227 light bulb, and when I try to turn the light off, it does not turn off completely, but rather flickers at a low intensity. The grounding wire is connected to the house ground, and I've tried wiring the load wires both ways, still just flickers. I have to pull out the service switch to get it to turn off.

    I've taken a video of the phenomenon: http://youtu.be/pyqHkVA74QQ
    I had same problem and the quick fix for me was keeping (1) regular bulb in the dim chain. So I had 5 LED's and 1 incandescent bulb and the flicker stopped instantly. Down side is one bulb is slightly off color.

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