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Thread: Apple Home Kit - Potential Answer to Home Automation Integration

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by schalliol View Post
    This isn't only about Siri integration, and a third-party really can't do what Apple is working on. Apple does often re-imagine concepts that aren't new that work when others don't in the marketplace.
    Apple isn't going to get all the manufacturers to settle on a standard communication protocol. It's been a custom integrators pipe dream for decades. The best they can do is incorporate plugins to deal with various manufacturers (just like crestron, control4, CF ect ect) are already doing / have done.

    Here is CommandFusion integrated with a flight simulation. Three way communication between the ipad, video game and CH Fighterstick/Prothrottle.

    http://youtu.be/zoU8R0ZDD3U


    Here's a children's remote for a 16 zone house. Adult remote has control over distributed audio, video, matrixes, rack mounted DirecTV receivers, integrated guide data, lutron lighting system, DSC alarm system.

    http://youtu.be/xR8cU0-ilcw

    Even if, somehow, Apple got all the manufacturers to switch protocols it would take decades for old equipment to fall out of use and be replaced with equipment that utilized the protocol.

  2. #12
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    I don't think you understand what Apple is trying to do. Apple is trying to develop in the iOS SDK way to allow the apps to be receive functions from the OS, and those apps can communicate with devices in any way they want. I think they have a very good chance of making this happen, but I'm sure someone will not want to do it. Heck, Apple has enough power to force developers to open these all connections if it really wants to. The user base is too large to be ignored.

    There is a beauty in it, Lutron could keep its own app and look the same and just receive calls on the back-end to trigger native functions

  3. #13
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    I understand exactly what Apple is trying to do.

  4. #14
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    The best I can think of that Apple can do is a JSON type introspection to discover public methods of an app. So you can have some type of app sandbox where you can hit a button you label "watch movie" that calls the lutron "Lights Dim" public method in the Lutron app and the Sony "Play Bluray" public method in the Sony app.

    It's not a magic bullet or a better answer to home automation. It is, in essence, the same thing a harmony remote tries to do with infrared except you won't have to actually learn the IR codes.

    Integrating a house full of electronics is much much more complex than that. You're not going to find an app on the app store to control your LG TV via RS232. LG's a good example of manufacturers bungling automation. You used to get a RS232 port on an LG, now you get a USB->RS232 port. But that port is powered off when the TV is off. So your back to pushing the button or using infrared to turn it on (negating automation). Infrared is only good for line of site.

    RS232 is still the best medium to communicate with your electronics. I don't buy anything without an RS232 port.

  5. #15
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    It is not at all the same thing Harmony is trying to do. It's trying to work with all the developers' apps directly. So, it wants Marantz to update the app I use with my pre/pro to receive calls of Homes, Rooms, Accessories, Services and Zones. It's all in the info I linked earlier. Indeed, for devices that don't have their own app, universal remote apps like Roomie or Harmony (potentially) that use network to IR gateways will be needed. Eventually, those devices will go away, but almost everyone has some that require legacy control.

    I like having RS232 as well (and I use it on a few devices), but modern IP is better IF done right. Generally RS-232 won't share everything that modern IP covers. For example, my DirecTV devices sends all sorts of stuff two-way via IP including more data than typically one would see with RS-232. Eventually I think RS-232 will be replaced, but you are certainly right that it's the most fool-proof to set volume and other parameters because there's no addressing required. It just works.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by schalliol View Post
    It is not at all the same thing Harmony is trying to do. It's trying to work with all the developers' apps directly. So, it wants Marantz to update the app I use with my pre/pro to receive calls of Homes, Rooms, Accessories, Services and Zones. It's all in the info I linked earlier. Indeed, for devices that don't have their own app, universal remote apps like Roomie or Harmony (potentially) that use network to IR gateways will be needed. Eventually, those devices will go away, but almost everyone has some that require legacy control.

    I like having RS232 as well (and I use it on a few devices), but modern IP is better IF done right. Generally RS-232 won't share everything that modern IP covers. For example, my DirecTV devices sends all sorts of stuff two-way via IP including more data than typically one would see with RS-232. Eventually I think RS-232 will be replaced, but you are certainly right that it's the most fool-proof to set volume and other parameters because there's no addressing required. It just works.
    I dont find IP to be better than 232 at all except in cases where the manufacturer added features to the IP protocol that don't exist in the 232 protocol (like directv you mentioned). I use the DirecTV Shef server as well for metadata but a DirecTV receiver responds faster to a transport call from RS232 than it does using the Shef server. Shef is a moving target and actually used to be much much better than it is now. They used to include the show ID tag that matched the schedulesdirect/tribune guide metadata ID and TVDB id which allowed me to pull the tag from the receiver on recordings or what is currently playing and pull artwork/actors/synopsis from TVDB, Rage and their ilk. They actually pulled that feature shortly after I posted a youtube video explaining how I was syncing up external web based metadata sites (probably nothing to do with me but I like to convince myself it was).

    In any case, some of the apps out there are just IR only and IMHO, if it isn't two way communication with status or device state updates it isn't automation :)

  7. #17
    Now that the Caseta hub is HomeKit compatible, when will the RadioRA2 main repeater gain the compatibility?

    The advantages of using IP rather than RS232 serial are
    1. Multiple devices could be addressed simultaneously using multicast/ broadcast packets.
    2. IP connectivity allows for multiple devices to exchange data in real time, with minimal latencies (microseconds range) if AVB is deployed.

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  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bktay View Post
    Now that the Caseta hub is HomeKit compatible, when will the RadioRA2 main repeater gain the compatibility?

    The advantages of using IP rather than RS232 serial are
    1. Multiple devices could be addressed simultaneously using multicast/ broadcast packets.
    2. IP connectivity allows for multiple devices to exchange data in real time, with minimal latencies (microseconds range) if AVB is deployed.
    I'm interested in this too: http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron_...m_medium=email

    Got a new install and client wants AppleWatch. Really don't want to sell Caseta. Want a RadioRa2 solution

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  11. #19
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    Then sell him RadioRA2. It works with AppleWatch (just not HomeKit).

  12. #20
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    Swancoat, you're missing their points: While both systems can use Apple Watch, Casseta offers more functionality than RA2, such as through Siri and HomeKit

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