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Thread: How is "Room LED Logic" affected by unaffected loads, delays, and sequences?

  1. #1

    How is "Room LED Logic" affected by unaffected loads, delays, and sequences?

    Would anyone have a chart or description of how a button's Room LED logic is affected in all cases?

    Does someone has a 4 column chart populated like this?
    -----------
    Button Press Action - Assignable Item - Delay - LED Status
    (PRESS ON or OFF) - (Lighting/Fan Zone, Manual Sequence, Automatic Sequence) - (YES or NO) - (ON IMMEDIATELY, ON AFTER DELAY, OFF AFTER DELAY, OFF IMMEDIATELY)
    -----------
    Also, if a Sequence Step has an assignable item with a delay, how does it affect the LED Status? (Not sure if that question makes sense or is clear)
    Through experience, I am suspecting that the LED logic seems to behave different from my own expectations...

    Part of the reason I ask is because i'm trying to accomplish two things:
    1) a button that toggles a lighting zone on and off, and monitors that zone through "toggle Room LED logic". However, I want only the Press ON action to trigger a fan on with a delay
    2) a toggle button with LED logic that monitors ALL lighting zones (zones 1-4) in a room, but only turns on one zone (zone '2') in the room. If any zone in that room is on, the LED should be ON, and the next button press should turn zones 1-4 off, and then the LED should be OFF.

  2. #2
    Hi:

    Sorry I forgot an important column to the chart- whether the load is affected or unaffected.
    I whipped up this spreadsheet to better convey my question. See attached.Attachment 175

  3. #3
    Updated revision to the chart. I don't see how the type of sequence (manual/auto) makes a difference, so I removed that from the chart and also added a column for LED status of the sequence. Perhaps it is worth also adding the delay of the assignable items within the sequence step too, but I'm not sure so I would rather someone comment.

    LED Room Logic.xlsx

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  5. #4
    Authorized Lutron Contributor
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    When a preset includes a delay, the delay time will not hinder the button status LED from turning on. As soon as the preset is activated by the button press, the LED will turn on.

    For your scenario 1) when the button is pressed to turn on the fan with a delay, the LED will be on even if the fan has not started yet. The LED will be off if the "Press Off" tab is activated.

    For your scenario 2) we recommend looking at the attached project file. We have 4 zones and a 1 button keypad. This button is a conditional. We have created an action scene that has all lights at 0% called "All Lights Off". The LED logic of the button is scene Reverse LED logic for that scene called "All lights Off". This means that anytime any of these loads is not 0% but another level, the LED on the button will turn on.

    The button press is as such:

    If zone 2 is at a level from 1% to 100%, turn it off
    If zone 2 is at 0%, turn it on.


    Quote Originally Posted by ekimla View Post
    Would anyone have a chart or description of how a button's Room LED logic is affected in all cases?

    Does someone has a 4 column chart populated like this?
    -----------
    Button Press Action - Assignable Item - Delay - LED Status
    (PRESS ON or OFF) - (Lighting/Fan Zone, Manual Sequence, Automatic Sequence) - (YES or NO) - (ON IMMEDIATELY, ON AFTER DELAY, OFF AFTER DELAY, OFF IMMEDIATELY)
    -----------
    Also, if a Sequence Step has an assignable item with a delay, how does it affect the LED Status? (Not sure if that question makes sense or is clear)
    Through experience, I am suspecting that the LED logic seems to behave different from my own expectations...

    Part of the reason I ask is because i'm trying to accomplish two things:
    1) a button that toggles a lighting zone on and off, and monitors that zone through "toggle Room LED logic". However, I want only the Press ON action to trigger a fan on with a delay
    2) a toggle button with LED logic that monitors ALL lighting zones (zones 1-4) in a room, but only turns on one zone (zone '2') in the room. If any zone in that room is on, the LED should be ON, and the next button press should turn zones 1-4 off, and then the LED should be OFF.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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  7. #5
    Thanks for the reply. I will try out the solution for Scenario 2.

    My issue with Scenario 1 is that I don't want the LED lit before the fan turns on. In my mind it is not intuitive if the LED turns on before the fan is actually on. I would expect this LED behaviour with fades, but not delays. Essentially I think I am looking for a workaround to ensure LEDs are on only AFTER the delay. I was hoping that the spreadsheet would provide the insight to figure out how to solve Scenario 1 and 2 myself, as well as other similar situations. It seems that I must use conditional programming to solve these problems of LED logic, and use delays inline with the conditional code rather than delays attached to the load itself.

  8. #6
    For scenario 1 you could use a sequence, and define the status LED as off during the delay (step 1), and on when the load turns on (step 2).

    The button could be a toggle with the LED logic 'defined by sequence'.

    With a delay to on like you're described I have had the LED slow blink during the delay to give a visual that something happened when the button was pressed - otherwise people may keep pressing it not knowing if anything was happening.

    Good luck and I hope I understood your problem correctly!

  9. #7
    I'd even make the LED flash slowly until the fan starts. Shows that something is actually going on.

  10. #8
    Thanks for the comments thus far. I see now that I have not properly explained scenario1.
    there is a keypad in the room. The button I was describing was to function like so:

    Press on - turn on light, trigger fan on with delay (the fan will be triggered by a sequence)
    press off - turn off light.
    Toggle LED logic on the light only

    Another separate button on the same keypad is dedicated to operate and monitor the fan. I only want that LED lit when the fan is actually On - after any delays. This button will be ideal for the blinking LED sequence. I think this button may need to be based on the sequence, rather than simple toggle LED logic.

    There is an occ sensor with completely different programming that also has the fan attached and I'm not certain they are operating the way I envision. I realize that I might need to write some sequences with blinking LEDs and operate the fan at some/all points exclusively through a sequence, but I'm first just trying to understand the standard system behaviour so I can map this out.. So there is more to problem I have not articulated. This is why I was asking about the chart.

    i think I solved scenario2 with conditional programming based on "non-reverse" led toggle logic of "all loads in the room". Press on triggers a couple lights to a preset, press off triggers all loads off (including the same fan from above). In this scenario2 I am good with the led lit at the beginning of the fan delay.

  11. #9
    I think a part of the confusion I have is when I write a conditional that says:

    if light is from "1-100%"

    Does that evaluate to true when the light is in the middle of a fade to off? how about in the middle of a delay to off?

    i.e. does the conditional evaluate the ACTUAL level, or the TARGET level?

  12. #10
    Authorized Lutron Contributor
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    All LED logic will evaluate to the target level that was programmed. The LED will not update during a fade, and will be natively on during a delay as the preset (the preset will contain the delay plus the control change at the end) will be true.

    If needed, would you be able to provide us a detailed description of the exact application required? We will then be able to program a sample file with this application.

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