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Thread: LED Glow/ghosting while dimmer switch is off

  1. #1
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    LED Glow/ghosting while dimmer switch is off

    Hello,

    I am experiencing ghosting, or glowing of my LED's lights, when turning off my lutron casseta switch . The lights I purchased were not on the recommended lighting list, and I believe what I am experiencing is the bleed through amperage (5 milli amps) of the Lutron dimmer switch in conjunction with my, smaller than minimum, load is allowing my five lights in my dining room to glow when the dimmer switch is "Off", and the two lights to glow brighter when their dimmer switch, in my dining room, is "off" ? There is no ground in either circuit - old home. Lights and dimmer work fine at full power, and dim down fine enough.


    Lights purchased : Sunco 4" recess LED dimmable lights


    https://www.amazon.com/Sunco-Lightin...+recessed+2700




    Dimmer Switch : PD-6WCL-WH


    All switches were wired with no neutral connected. They interrupted constant hot wire from panel box, to the hot to my LED lights. Both rooms are on individual dimmer switch. Both have the same model of lights.




    • So, my question is who can I talk to about this? I've emailed Lutron today ( Case Number: 7755889 ).
    • Am I correct that my lights have not met the minimum load rating for the switch and the current is bleeding through to my lights and powering them on?
    • Is one solution to my ghosting using the Lut - MLC adaptive cap? Is the Lut-MLC a snubber circuit?
    • Then, if the lut-mlc is not correct what can I use as a shunt?
    • Will adjusting the trim help?




    Lut MLC : https://www.jmac.com/Lutron_LUT_MLC_...on-lut-mlc.htm


    Minimum Load rating : http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...ary/048487.pdf

    Please advise I am not an electrician or electrical engineer.

    Thanks,

    Andrew

  2. #2
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    3 options here:

    1) Change the LEDs to an approved product- may not solve the problem
    2) Change dimmer to the PD-6ANS- most likely would solve or at least reduce the "ghosting" you are experiencing
    3) Try the LUT-MLC- lots of posts on this, Lutron reluctantly has mentioned the MLC with dimming now. Prior, it was always a NO with dimmers.

    I would try the MLC first. Cheapest, easiest solution. Then replace the dimmer.

    The MLC is a 6mA shunt capacitor, it works by absorbing the LED readout on the digital dimmers in the home control lines- Caseta, RadioRA2, HWQS, RA2 Select. Once the dimmer or switch is turned "on", the excess current will fill the remainder on the capacitor and then travel to the fixture. Thus eliminating the "ghosting" you are experiencing. Note that the only official use that I have ever seen documented for using the MLC is the non-neutral switches in Caseta, RA2, and Maestro Wireless. That being said, plenty have successfully added an MLC to a dimming circuit and are happy with the results.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    3 options here:

    1) Change the LEDs to an approved product- may not solve the problem
    2) Change dimmer to the PD-6ANS- most likely would solve or at least reduce the "ghosting" you are experiencing
    3) Try the LUT-MLC- lots of posts on this, Lutron reluctantly has mentioned the MLC with dimming now. Prior, it was always a NO with dimmers.

    I would try the MLC first. Cheapest, easiest solution. Then replace the dimmer.

    The MLC is a 6mA shunt capacitor, it works by absorbing the LED readout on the digital dimmers in the home control lines- Caseta, RadioRA2, HWQS, RA2 Select. Once the dimmer or switch is turned "on", the excess current will fill the remainder on the capacitor and then travel to the fixture. Thus eliminating the "ghosting" you are experiencing. Note that the only official use that I have ever seen documented for using the MLC is the non-neutral switches in Caseta, RA2, and Maestro Wireless. That being said, plenty have successfully added an MLC to a dimming circuit and are happy with the results.
    Thanks for replying! I have a few general questions about the lut-mlc. How is it wired between the switch and lights? My lights are in parallel with the switch ( neutrals all wired together at switch, neutral to panel and neutral to lights wired together) then my lights are in parallel to the switch hot/neutral into first light from switch, hot/neutral from light, and then hot/neutral to next light, and so on. I think thats "daisy chaining".

    Anyways, just wondering how to wire this shunt cap in. Parallel or series between switch and lights? Does it use one hot leg and neutral leg?

    Is the mlc shunt cap safe to use?

  4. #4
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    MLC is safe. Lutron is highly particular about those sort of things.

    It wires in parallel on the first fixture according to the wiring diagram. You can jump from the load side of the dimmer to the neutrals if getting to the first fixture is difficult.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    MLC is safe. Lutron is highly particular about those sort of things.

    It wires in parallel on the first fixture according to the wiring diagram. You can jump from the load side of the dimmer to the neutrals if getting to the first fixture is difficult.
    Mike, thank you it worked perfectly on my two light dining room. I did a few things before puting it in. I tested my living room by reducing the amount of plugged in LEDs to two to see if that other half of the circuit had the same after glow when switch is off. It did. Then I tested trimming the low level, and as expected did nothing. Then I wired in the capacitor, and it worked. Lights turn completely off very fast. I will have to make junction boxes up in my attic since the cap has a slight buzz when the lights are on.

    Lutron tech rep was telling me this wouldn't work since my switches werent digital and reverse phase. My switch is atleast digital.. and it did work flawlessly.

    Thanks

  6. #6
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    Mlc

    Quote Originally Posted by ajt49 View Post
    Mike, thank you it worked perfectly on my two light dining room. I did a few things before puting it in. I tested my living room by reducing the amount of plugged in LEDs to two to see if that other half of the circuit had the same after glow when switch is off. It did. Then I tested trimming the low level, and as expected did nothing. Then I wired in the capacitor, and it worked. Lights turn completely off very fast. I will have to make junction boxes up in my attic since the cap has a slight buzz when the lights are on.

    Lutron tech rep was telling me this wouldn't work since my switches werent digital and reverse phase. My switch is atleast digital.. and it did work flawlessly.

    Thanks
    I believe the MLC incorporates a 0.47 uf capacitor. Does anyone know if there is also a resistor in series with the capacitor or any other components inside the shrink sleeve? Thanks.

  7. #7
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    It is just the capacitor. A resistor is a Leviton trick. Back in the day before the newer dimming tech, we used to hise a porcelain keyless in the attic with a 25w A19 lamp as the first "fixture". Worked like a charm every time.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  8. #8
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    I do not. I was told by Lutron Reps that the noise I was hearing was not appropriate. I think a perfect solution would to be to install a normally closed relay in series with this capacitor. That way when the lights are on, and the relay see's voltage it opens the contacts, and stops any current from flowing into the capacitor. Then, when switching the lights off the relay would make contact, and the capacitor would do its job.

    I ultimately just added two more led lights and I have no more issues.

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