System Robustness

[JSmall]

<rant>

Has anyone else noticed a trend either in their own stable of RA2 projects or on the forums where we have significant, time consuming issues with failing main repeaters or issues updating FW and transferring config files?

Nearly everyone of our RA2 projects, either that we had installed once a upon a time (since we refuse to install any RA2 systems) or ones that we had taken over and now manage have stability issues. Lately, we've had to replace the main repeaters to regain system stability. To provide an idea of the consistency of the issues across our projects, here's a small list:

• System programming states button is single press to "turn off" all room lights, but when pressed, all light turn off except one that turn on.
• Keypads provide false LED feedback
• Some shades in a scene to not respond to keypad command.
• Some shades do not accept new device database on transfer when adjacent shades do accept it.
• Dimmer intermittently switch on the load (and this isn't a wiring issue).
• Can't consistently and completely transfer device databases
  
  • We're always hardwired to main repeater
  • No firewalls
  • Clean reboot of device and laptop

We don't seem to have these types of issues with any other manufacturer. Why can't we use an Ethernet connection across our network to transfer config file or upgrade FW? Why so many stability issues? What happened to Lutron's robustness that you install the product and only need to come back to make a programming adjustment, which (if you had the file) was a relatively painless process.

I think we need to demand more from Lutron regarding this product line. I used to hear that they used a specific chipset that was the issue, because at that point in time that was all that was available. Perhaps, but then everyone else in the industry would have the same issues. I'm willing to pay another $5 more for a better chipset to forgo these field issues.

Anyone else see this RA2 world with Kaleidoscope eyes?

<rant/>

[randyc]

I do think Lutron can improve the process but, honestly, no. I have a experienced some of the issues you described but not to the extent you have. A lot of my issues went away when we got a new network guy. We use enterprise grade routers and it was a bit over his head.

For a typical system I typically get 3-5 upload errors. 1-2 of those are explainable (gap switch, no load, breaker, etc.), the others clear up on retry. I almost exclusively use WiFi for transfers.

Since RR2 came out I have replaced 1 main repeater. I put the "faulty" one in my house and have been using it without issue since. I probably have 50+ systems installed. I tend to be heavy handed with aux repeaters. Lutron tends to be conservative with its coverage specs but I find an extra aux repeater or two a good insurance policy.

[JSmall]

I do think Lutron can improve the process but, honestly, no. I have a experienced some of the issues you described but not to the extent you have. A lot of my issues went away when we got a new network guy. We use enterprise grade routers and it was a bit over his head.

We too use enterprise-class networks (and I don't mean Pakedge or Luxul!) for all of our systems. We have some pretty big Crestron systems running without an issue, but on the same network, we can't even transfer the config file over WiFi. Our normal practice is to upload only over Ethernet, but there's been some cases where WiFi would have been preferable.

[randyc]

Hmm... I actually have the opposite problem. D3 is such a dog! You have to do some things in D3 and some things in Toolbox. Even though D3 says you can acquire devices you have to go to toolbox. Apparently acquire devices means something different in D3 vs Toolbox. The transfer is quicker but there is always a device or two that doesn't get updated or have a green check. I don't have the option to retry failed devices so it upload again.

A couple of things I do with D3, Lutron and Vantage are

If I am working in the program more than an hour or so I close the program and reopen it.
If I upload 2 or 3 times, I close the program and reopen it.
If I have a program open on one network (home) and move to another network (customer) I close the program and reopen it. Sometimes I reboot just to be safe.
I threaten the AV and network guys with 11 degrees of Hades if they do something that interrupts an upload.

[ben.berding]

This is such an interesting topic. I feel like I have seen problems with robustness lately. It's just weird little things. The other day, I had an all on/off shared scene that was enabled as a toggle on all the keypads. It had worked fine for months, then, all of a sudden, on just one keypad, whenever you would press the button, all the lights would start to fade off and then immediately ramp right back up to full brightness. It was absolutely maddening!! The scene worked perfectly fine on EVERY other keypad, except this one. So I transferred to the system, the problem remained. I did everything you could think of and kept transferring. Nothing seemed to make a difference. Finally I reset the keypad. Well, I went to enter activation mode and the software would just spin and spin while claiming, "Activating Main Repeater," until finally it would time out. I finally got the repeater to enter activation mode, and it activated, but it started an entirely new set of problems. After I finally transferred one last time, that's when things got nuts.

Everything started going crazy, switches wouldn't respond, keypads LAGGED, scenes broke. I've never seen anything like it. I was ready to call it quits and just replace the main repeater, when I thought, maybe this has something to do with the transfers and the network. Especially since I was only able to get it into activation mode the one time, out of a hundred I had tried. Something just didn't seem right.

So, I whipped up a brand new, temporary, network. I opened my app and transferred to the system. Suddenly there was a calm, the repeater looked well and something seemed different. So I bit the bullet and hit activation, it jumped right into activation, and then right back out. suddenly everything was working flawlessly. I couldn't believe it. What I had thought was a bad repeater were simply corrupt transfers on account of the bad network. So I ran around and tested the whole system. Not one problem to be found! I just couldn't believe it!

So the moral of my story is that I think the network plays a way bigger role in the reliability of our RRA 2 and HWQS systems then many of us realize. This was an enterprise grade, Cisco, network. Not the small business stuff either. The network is aging though (10+ years old) and had been scheduled for replacement. That just got fast tracked and is in the process now. Cisco just never dies.

I would like to know, what is everyone's network gear of choice? I have always been a Cisco fanatic, you just can't beat it, but there are so many new choices these days. I would like to know what people are choosing and what they like the best. I do feel that Cisco is living in an outdated business model that can't last much longer, but they have no competition, so they get to do what they want. I saw a full Ubiquiti UniFi network recently, I was very impressed. I love how everything was integrated into the one controller and you had total transparency and control of the network all from one place. You could see the transmission and type of data flow through the entire network; from the router, through the switches and even right out of the access points. To get anywhere near that level of control and insight from Cisco, you're looking at about a $50,000 price difference. Ubiquiti doesn't even have licensing fees and you don't have to pay for service plans to get firmware updates and support. It blew my mind. It definitely seems too good to be true, so I'd love to know what others think and if they have any experience. I may never switch, but I think it's import to reevaluate regularly.