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Thread: HWQS - just too slow to catch double tap and cycle dim ?

  1. #1
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    HWQS - just too slow to catch double tap and cycle dim ?

    Is it just me, or is HWQS just WAY slower than HWI ?

    Examples:

    1. Keypad scene is ON -- LED is ON -- it does not matter if it is a scene or room. Pressing and holding do do cycle dim causes lights to go OFF - sometimes to even make it almost off BEFORE catching the HOLD and start to ramp up

    2. Keypad scene is ON -- LED is ON -- it does not matter if it is a scene or room. Doing a double tap (set to go to bright) causes lights to start to go OFF, then it catches the second tap and ramps up to bright.

    These delays are enough for user to turn, thinking that he has not done it right and to hit buttons again causing even more issues.

    This is on an RF system. Old HWI never had this problem. Is this an inherent QS bus issue, if so QS is a backwards step from HWI !

  2. #2
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    Just thought a third example.

    I have written a good AMX module that interfaces well with HWQS. It runs through the network telnet link, so SHOULD be blinding fast.

    When I press buttons on AMX - other LED feedback takes AGES to come back to me - this is not the network - just that QS seems to tell you about light levels and LED changes SECONDS later.

    My HWI module ran at 5700 baud and feedback was almost instantaneous - I had sliders working and everything.

    I have noticed similar slowness with the iPad interface.

    Are any others seeing this ?

  3. #3
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    JDearden, we would like to attempt to reproduce this issue here with a project file you experienced this issue with. We invite you to send a copy of the project file to hwsupport@Lutron.com for us to investigate this issue.

  4. #4
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    I got this in response to my post on repeater failure, and I would like to ask if this is the root of the double tap problem:

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig W. View Post
    ..... when a keypad button is pressed if the RF devices are within range of the keypad they will ..... hear the command from the button press and will respond. The keypad will not have its LED updated as that information comes from the processor. The RF devices that are not within range of the keypad and the other system devices will not hear the command ........ So what can happen is that some device are responding to the button press as they are close enough to the keypad to hear the command directly while other devices will not respond to the button press as the repeater chain is broken.
    If this is a mesh network, and the dimmers respond directly to a keypad toggle off press (without recourse to the main processor) this this could well explain the lights dimming for 1-2 seconds BEFORE the processor catches the double tap and countermands the dim (assuming the double tap is a "bright" level as is the norm).

    Can Craig W. explain how much of the programing is passed down to each dimmer/device to react in this way ?

  5. #5
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    When the cycle dim option is selected the programming of the button occurs on the release and not the press to allow the system to see the hold command before affecting the lights. If the button was held then the release only stops the cycle dim commands and does not execute the programming. There is also a different command sent to turn the lights on as to turn the lights off from a button press.

    The dimmers hearing the command from the keypad and the processor will not cause the issue you are experiencing as they are designed to handle this communication. If the processor(s) are disconnected from the local networks do these issues still occur? If these issue still occurs when the processor(s) are disconnected from the local network please create a support file and send that into hwsupport@lutron.com indicating which button was being used when the issue occurred.

  6. #6
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    But double tap ...

    I understand --- I was thinking more about the double tap than the cycle dim ?

    Sequence (toggle button):
    1. Lights turned on to normal level with single press
    2. Button then DOUBLE tapped (which is set to same lights at BRIGHT)
    3. Lights start to go OFF - it can sometimes continue to dim for 1-2 seconds
    4. Then the system catches the fact that it is going the WRONG WAY -- and ramps to BRIGHT

    :-)



    Quote Originally Posted by Craig W. View Post
    When the cycle dim option is selected the programming of the button occurs on the release and not the press to allow the system to see the hold command before affecting the lights. If the button was held then the release only stops the cycle dim commands and does not execute the programming. There is also a different command sent to turn the lights on as to turn the lights off from a button press.

    The dimmers hearing the command from the keypad and the processor will not cause the issue you are experiencing as they are designed to handle this communication. If the processor(s) are disconnected from the local networks do these issues still occur? If these issue still occurs when the processor(s) are disconnected from the local network please create a support file and send that into hwsupport@lutron.com indicating which button was being used when the issue occurred.

  7. #7
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    When a double tap occurs the system will always see the press first and then the double tap. When the system sees the press that action will be executed and then the system will see the double tap so that action will occur. This is so the system does not need to wait to see if the button is going to be double tapped before executing the programming on the press.

    If there is not a delay on the double tap programming and you are experiencing a 1-2 second delay for the double tap function to occur it would indicate a communication issue. We would recommend verify that all the repeater are plugged in and powered, as well as what your distance are from devices to repeaters on the RF link, and from repeater to repeater on the RF link. If everything is powered and within the proper range then please reproduce this issue and then create a support file to send in to hwsupport@lutron.com for us to analyze.

  8. #8
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    I sent a video of the problem to support - plus the support file .... this was their responce:

    =============

    When the double tap occurs it needs to execute the programming of the press before it executes the programming of the double tap. This is because the system does not know if the button will be double tapped or not. If the button is not double tapped you do not want to want for press programming to be executed. So what is occurring is that the press function occurs, which in the video turns off the lights and during that fade time the double tap gets executed to turn the lights on. This causes the lights to dim down before dimming up. If you either increase the fade rate or add a delay to the press off programing this can be eliminated or reduced. We added a 1 second delay to the lights on the press off tab and this eliminated the lights dimming down and back up when the button was double tapped.

    For the cycle dim function issue, in the project settings the cycle dim function is set to have the lights lower as its default direction. So when you hold the button the lights will begin to lower. After you release the button and hold it again while the LED is still flashing the lights will begin to raise. When we mocked up this system here we did notice any delay in the lights responding to the cycle dim functionality. If you would like to change the initial direction the cycle dim functionality go to tools > project settings and click on the “programming” tab. After this change is made you will need to re-transfer to the system.

  9. #9
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    I made the changes - and it does stop the light lower before the double tap -- but NOT acceptable. Here is my reply to Lutron HWSUPPORT:

    ==========

    OK – so comments after adjustments made:

    I put a 1 second delay on the off toggle, and yes it prevented most of the LOWER before the DOUBLE TAP RAISE. There was still a slight drop, so a delay 0f 1.5 or more may be needed to stop the LOWER.

    The cycle dim works correctly now – and there is no delay to the RAISE.


    So – how is this going to be fixed. A 1-2 second delay is not acceptable. The customer gets confused as the action they just did (the double tap) is NOT immediately actioned, and the delay tends to make them press buttons again causing unforeseen confusion.

    The second tap should be seen by the processor within milliseconds – WHY is this not getting through to the processor and being actioned. Adding a delay is a poor work-around and does not address the real issue.

    Again – this was NOT a problem in HWI – why are we going backwards with QS?

  10. #10
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    We have passed your feedback on to the development team.

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