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Thread: HW-RPM-4A dimming module testing rig with RRD-F6AN-DV-WH

  1. #1
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    HW-RPM-4A dimming module testing rig with RRD-F6AN-DV-WH

    Hi All,
    To get to the point, my ultimate goal is to test low level dimming with constant current and constant voltage LED tape, using Home works, Lutron dimmers and HW-RPM-4A dimming module. In the future, I want to show clients the many possible LED driver types, LED tape types and Lutron dimmer /homeworks types ---that all work together.


    As of now, I want to make a shop testing rig to match the same dimming that is currently installed in a house where the LEDs are not the same brightness next to each other and from one fixture to another.


    We get dimming problems at very low levels where each LED is not at the same brightness. The current LED tape is with IC chips on board to regulate the current. These LEDs are dimmed using a HW-RPM-4A-120 remote dimming module with a Qtran Power rectified power supply.


    So the new LED tape needed for the Qtran power supplies is resistive LED tape using constant voltage and the resistors are limiting the current to change brightness of the LED.


    Here is what I have to shop test the dimming….
    RRD-F6AN-DV-WH +
    HW-RPM-4A-120 +
    Q-Tran QTM-DC+CAP 24V 120 +
    24V Resistive LED tape.


    I’m working with a Lutron lighting system for a house that has 800 feet of LED. Each LED section is 1 -to-12 feet long and line the ceiling in all the rooms.


    The products that are currently installed in the house are as follows:
    HW-QS processor
    SeeTouch keypads
    RPM-4A dimming module
    QTran power supplies-QTM-DC+CAP /200 watt rectified power supply
    http://www.q-tran.com/products/power-supply/qtm-dccap




    The gentleman doing the programming for the lighting system is having a problem with adjacent LED fixtures where the dim levels are very different at 10-20%. It’s like the LEDs are spotty and some LEDs are brighter than the LEDs next to it. We are using forward phase dimming through an RPM-4A dimming module. It's not that it is not dimming to 10%. It is that 10% looks different on adjacent Linear LED runs. The keypad controls are all low voltage separate from the 120V switch leg. The Lutron RPM-4A dimming module feed the QTran power supplies which feed the Linear LED strips. All of the QTran power supplies are using the same Tap. When he send’s a command to multiple LED switch legs to dim to 10%, the light output on adjacent LEDs is very different. Same Tap, Same dim level, different results. No error codes showing up on the Lutron RPM-4A dimming modules

    Questions:
    1. Will these parts work together and be able to dim my LEDs in the shop? Do I need more parts? Please advise.


    2. Is there a wiring diagram to connect the RRD-F6AN-DV-WH +
    HW-RPM-4A-120 +
    Q-Tran QTM-DC+CAP 24V 120 ?????...to test the same type of dimming that is currently in the house?


    Connection to module interface
    All RPMs must be connected to a module interface housed within the same panel enclosure. If a processor is located in the same enclosure as RPMs, a processor with an integral module interface must be used. RPMs within an enclosure are connected to the module interface using a Lutron-provided harness. To minimize the effects of single power supply failure, each RPM is powered by its own internal power supply.


    Do I need a 4-Pin connector for Module Interface Assembly Harness? Is there a small unit just for a single test situation?


    Thanks in advance and please ask any questions you gave.


    -Jason

  2. #2
    Wow! That is ambitious.

    The Lutron products all come with connectors. You will need a cable to go between the processor and module interface.

    I'm not clear on how you are connecting the LED strips to the transformer. If you are using different taps on the transformer you should not that each tap is a different voltage. Tap 1 = 11v, tap 2 = 12v, etc.

    When Lutron tests an LED they provide a "minimum level." Below this point the performance of the LED becomes undesirable. You can specify a lower and upper limit in the HQS software. When you dim the lights and they reach the limit set in the software, they will turn off. You may be diving the LEDs too low. You will need to determine the best lower limit for the product you have.
    LED, Inc.
    10401 Cokesbury Ln
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  3. #3
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    Thanks Randy,
    I appreciate your time and expertise. We found out that the lighting engineer specked the wrong Qtran power supplies and as a result, we had to replace the constant current LED tape to constant voltage resistive LED tape.

    I purchased a single HW-RPM-4A-120 (crazy expensive) to use it as a portable demo unit to show clients the LEDs I make, work with a Homeworks system. I just dont know how many other components I need to run resistive type LEDs. I wanted to use this demo kit as a show and tell, but now I realize that I need a lot more very expensive components such as a Lutron head unit. Here is what I want to use as a demo mounted in a pelican case on wheels.

    HW-QS processor
    SeeTouch keypad
    HW-RPM-4A-120
    Q-Tran QTM-DC+CAP 24V 120
    Lutron RRD-F6AN-DV-WH
    Shine On LED resistive LED tape and constant current LED tape.

    At this point, I'm wondering if it is possible to connect a single HW-RPM-4A-120 to a single Q-Tran QTM-DC+CAP 24V 120 using a single Lutron RRD-F6AN-DV-WH as my dimmer?

    A wiring diagram and part list of the remaining LUTRON parts would help out a lot.

    Hope to hear from you soon,

    -Jason @Shine On LED

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    399
    Quote Originally Posted by ShineOnLED View Post
    Thanks Randy,
    I appreciate your time and expertise. We found out that the lighting engineer specked the wrong Qtran power supplies and as a result, we had to replace the constant current LED tape to constant voltage resistive LED tape.

    I purchased a single HW-RPM-4A-120 (crazy expensive) to use it as a portable demo unit to show clients the LEDs I make, work with a Homeworks system. I just dont know how many other components I need to run resistive type LEDs. I wanted to use this demo kit as a show and tell, but now I realize that I need a lot more very expensive components such as a Lutron head unit. Here is what I want to use as a demo mounted in a pelican case on wheels.

    HW-QS processor
    SeeTouch keypad
    HW-RPM-4A-120
    Q-Tran QTM-DC+CAP 24V 120
    Lutron RRD-F6AN-DV-WH
    Shine On LED resistive LED tape and constant current LED tape.

    At this point, I'm wondering if it is possible to connect a single HW-RPM-4A-120 to a single Q-Tran QTM-DC+CAP 24V 120 using a single Lutron RRD-F6AN-DV-WH as my dimmer?

    A wiring diagram and part list of the remaining LUTRON parts would help out a lot.

    Hope to hear from you soon,

    -Jason @Shine On LED

    Not understanding the difference between constant current and constant voltage happens a lot I have learned never ever leave decision making on LED control to a salesman Been burned way to much Moreover fully understanding forward phase, reverse phase and PWM dimming also creates a lot of unnecessary headaches I see the Quran was a magnetic transformer another yuck in my book any way i wanted to point you to this document as a good read

    http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...Whitepaper.pdf


    When looking for a great LED driver in constant voltage check out

    http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products...nePercent.aspx

  5. #5
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    Thanks very much for the links and help. I very much appreciate it.

    I do my best to stay away from the ALR/QTRAN sales guys that read from a line card. They never help out, only push me out of the way to speck their own product. I kill them on lumens and can fast track UL certification. We make it a priority to stay ahead of the "line card" guys.

    I do need to get way more information on choosing the right products for the LEDs I make. I like the Lutron Hi-Lume Premier, but it's only 96 watts. Our LEDs can go up to 30 feet and produce more than 1200 lumens a foot at 24Volts.

    Anyway, It looks like I have the wrong unit....HW-RPM-4A-120. Ugh- that thing cost me 700.00 and I can't return it. Live and learn.

    Can you recommend an EVL power supply? Here is what I have as samples so far to go with my LEDs.

    Meanwell.....

    PWM-120-24
    24V Dimmable CV LED Driver
    0~10Vdc, 10V PWM or Resistance
    IP67, Class II, PFC

    OWA-120U-24
    24V External LED Power Supply
    UL8750 Listed
    Operates: CV or CC Mode

    NPF-120D-24
    Dimmable LED Power Supply
    IP67, Class II, PFC

    HLG-120H-24B
    Dimmable LED Power Supply
    IP67, PFC, Metal Case
    Harsh Environment

    Thanks again,

    Jason @ShineOnLED

  6. #6
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    Looks like we are still having issues with the system. We replaced 800 feet of CC LED with resistive type CV LEDs and still have a few issues with the dimming not being equal. Some advice above may be the issue......HW-RPM-4A-120 Remote Power Module

    When Lutron tests an LED they provide a "minimum level." Below this point the performance of the LED becomes undesirable. You can specify a lower and upper limit in the HQS software. When you dim the lights and they reach the limit set in the software, they will turn off. You may be driving the LEDs too low. You will need to determine the best lower limit for the product you have.


    The home automation company still cannot get the dimming equal in all the rooms. Could this be due to the dimming modules needing 20 watts to turn on?

    Here is the BOM
    1. Shine On LED 1000 Lumens a foot/24V resistive LED- 12-foot section w/extrusion.
    2. Qtran LED power supplies -QTM-DC+CAP. http://www.q-tran.com/products/power-supply/qtm-dccap
    3. HQWD-W6BRL-WH HWQS Designer
    4. Wired seeTouch 6 Button with Raise/Lower Keypad
    5. CW-1-WH Claro Wallplate
    6. PHPM-SW-DV-WH Switching Power Module (120/277 V)
    7. LR-3B-H-SW 3 Button Visor Control Transmitter
    8. HQR-VCRX-WH HWQS Visor Control Receiver with 3 Contact Closure Inputs and 4 Contact Closure Outputs
    9. HWAP-8D-15-120L3 Arc Fault Breaker Panel - 8 Module, 59" Enclosure with 15A Integrated AFCI Breakers -
    10. Phase 3 Wire Feed
    11. HWI-PNL-5 Feed through Panel - 5 Module, 32" Enclosure
    12. HWI-MI-120 Module Interface (MI) Device
    13. HW-RPM-4A-120 Remote Power Module - 4 Adaptive Phase Control Dimming Outputs
    14. LUT-LBX-WH LED and Ultra-Low Wattage Load Dimming Interface
    15. Sivoia QS Roller Shade Sivoia QS Roller Shade 33 Contact Factory Representative
    16. HQR-T10RL-SW HWQS Tabletop RF 10 Button with Master On/Off and Raise/Lower LFK-T10RL-SW
    17. HQ-LV21-120 Low Voltage Enclosure - 21" panel for holding HWQS Processor and Interface Devices
    18. HWAP-8D-20-120L3 Arc Fault Breaker Panel - 8 Module, 59" Enclosure with 20A Integrated AFCI Breakers
    19. Phase 3 Wire Feed
    20. QSPS-DH-1-60 24 VDC DIN Rail Power Supply for Processor and Links 2.5 Amp
    21. QS-WLB Wire Landing Board with Five, 4-Position Terminal Blocks
    22. HQP6-2 HWQS 2-Link Processor
    23. HQR-REP-120 HWQS Hybrid Wired/Wireless RF System Repeater



  7. #7
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    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1
    Hi...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge if you are using different taps on the transformer you should not that each tap is a different voltage. Tap 1 = 11v, tap 2 = 12v, etc. When Lutron tests an LED they provide a "minimum level." Below this point the performance of the LED becomes undesirable. You can specify a lower and upper limit in the HQS software. When you dim the lights and they reach the limit set in the software, they will turn off.

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