Caseta System at max Capacity

[Mitch1]

I like that analogy. I think the problem comes down to the fact that we are all "Do It Yourselfers" and as such, we are limited to Caseta. If I could easily get my hands on "RadioRA Select" products and deploy them myself, I would. But I am forced to use an integrator to get started with that stuff.

The fact that so many integrators must rely on the product manufacturer to force customers to them by imposing these limitations tells me that the integrators are doing a poor job of bringing value to the equation. Can they only be successful if people are forbidden from doing their own installations..? I don't think so. Most people do not posses the skill or understanding needed to install even a single light switch. Anyone who's eager to install more than 50 or them certainly doesn't need the help of an integrator.

I would agree that many people won't tackle a switch install, but it is about the most basic thing one can do - if you can use a screwdriver, you can do it!

I stand by my statements and encourage Lutron to expand the limit on their Caseta system ASAP. It is where the market is going, lead or be left behind.

[SDR-Mike]

I like that analogy. I think the problem comes down to the fact that we are all "Do It Yourselfers" and as such, we are limited to Caseta. If I could easily get my hands on "RadioRA Select" products and deploy them myself, I would. But I am forced to use an integrator to get started with that stuff.

Thee are plenty of electrical distribution houses that sell direct to consumers. They pay more than the electricians would, but can still get the product. I should know, I was one of those distributors. No offense intended for those that agree with this statement, but if you are smart enough to get on this forum for help, then you've figured out the internet. You researched Caseta and made your choice. You could have used the "Where to Buy" on Lutron's website and found a RA2 wholesale house. Both of the locations I worked at are still listed. Many of the locations that were my customers when I was the rep are still listed. The joy of the lower price Caseta is now overshadowed by the issues you are having now with a maxed system. This is why the integrators are getting paid, to help you avoid this issue by selling the proper product. They've already gone through the research and the headaches you are experiencing. Wisdom and knowledge don't come cheap, easy, or quickly.

I respect Mitch1's position, he paid good money and now can't get the project he wants. I'm a homeowner and have gone through these issues in other areas. I appreciate Gator Bite's info, I learned something on Caseta- and I was the rep when it was released and personally knew people back at Lutron to really get "the inside scoop" on some of these weird issues. But the fact remains that Caseta is locked into a 50 device limit. Answers exist for going past that, but may create their own issues in understanding the programming. Too many "trunk slammer" guys flocked to Caseta in this EXACT same fashion, only to get bit by the 50 device limit. I was the one explaining to the customer why Caseta was wrong for them, and finding them someone more qualified to assist in design a PROPER lighting control system for their home. And every time is sucked that someone sunk good money on Caseta when they should have been told NO, you need RA2. RA2 Select is what you are all asking for and Lutron's response.

[bmennear]

First off, thank you Gator Bite for the valuable info you've shared on 4+ way switch configurations. That's a great solution to a problem that hasn't really been addressed by any retail/DIY product and personally I didn't want to run Casetas and Z-Wave as well just for these situations.

Myself I see several problems with this ongoing saga around the imposed 50 device cap.

First off, I don't think it is an area of contention that Caseta is for users in the DIY/retail space. I'm sure there are many that bought into the system from a product box they read at a big box store. I originally wanted to add switches to a different location and saw these with the Pico remotes in store. From there, I added more elsewhere as I wasn't interested in running a bunch of different bridges. Where is the mention of the 50 device hard cap on their retail packaging? Lets remember that Lutron has added the Sonos Pico, 3-Way switch, Fan controller and repeater via lamp dimmer. Coupled with the existing dimmers, switches and Serena shades, it really looks as though this system is being proposed as a whole-house solution. Yet... we have a hard device cap of 50 with no path to upgrade. As I posted some time ago, offer us a solution, a new bridge, a software license, whatever it is short of a rip and replace. Take my money, please. Instead, new products are added that interest those of us at max capacity, but we continue to be neglected if we don't want to go the multiple bridge route which lets be honest, is a hack.

Adding RA2 select with no upgrade path for Caseta users was not the solution those of us at the 50 cap needed. Not allowing Caseta devices to be used on RA2 Select bridges means we are in rip and replace territory here. The "throw it away and get the new one" line of thinking may prevail in the cell phone and tablet world, but it has no place in our homes and our light switches. Suggesting users made the wrong call by getting into the Caseta offering is not at all helpful. You don't know what level of research each user did before committing, if it was a gradual purchase over years or one-shot, etc. Some users may have done their research, others may not have, and posting on a forum after you've become aware of the imposed cap doesn't constitute acknowledgement of it from device #1. How many devices is an acceptable number to rip and replace? For me, its zero. Personally I became aware of the cap around device 30 from seeing a thread on here. I would have thought by now that something would have been done to encourage those at the limit to continue being customers. I would gladly add shades, fan controllers and with Gator Bite's info, more switches in areas I avoided previously.

We all recognize the retail and installer markets are different entities. There are those that value paying an integrator because they want a more polished, customizable solution, they want it to just work and not have to support or troubleshoot problems, or maybe they lack the expertise, time or ambition to take it on themselves. I completely understand that mindset. Some people hire experts or tradesman and others would rather not. Caseta is a retail/DIY product and it has been positioned as such. Caseta appeals to users that want to go to HD in 5 minutes and buy another couple switches, people that want to do things at their own pace and people that want to do it themselves. So how does a 50 device limit erode the installer business? I don't see the connection and I hope, one day, Lutron will relax this limit and give us an upgrade path so I can continue to invest in what I see as the best retail/DIY offering in the space.

[JustSomeGuy]

First off, thank you Gator Bite for the valuable info you've shared on 4+ way switch configurations. That's a great solution to a problem that hasn't really been addressed by any retail/DIY product and personally I didn't want to run Casetas and Z-Wave as well just for these situations.

Myself I see several problems with this ongoing saga around the imposed 50 device cap.

First off, I don't think it is an area of contention that Caseta is for users in the DIY/retail space. I'm sure there are many that bought into the system from a product box they read at a big box store. I originally wanted to add switches to a different location and saw these with the Pico remotes in store. From there, I added more elsewhere as I wasn't interested in running a bunch of different bridges. Where is the mention of the 50 device hard cap on their retail packaging? Lets remember that Lutron has added the Sonos Pico, 3-Way switch, Fan controller and repeater via lamp dimmer. Coupled with the existing dimmers, switches and Serena shades, it really looks as though this system is being proposed as a whole-house solution. Yet... we have a hard device cap of 50 with no path to upgrade. As I posted some time ago, offer us a solution, a new bridge, a software license, whatever it is short of a rip and replace. Take my money, please. Instead, new products are added that interest those of us at max capacity, but we continue to be neglected if we don't want to go the multiple bridge route which lets be honest, is a hack.

Adding RA2 select with no upgrade path for Caseta users was not the solution those of us at the 50 cap needed. Not allowing Caseta devices to be used on RA2 Select bridges means we are in rip and replace territory here. The "throw it away and get the new one" line of thinking may prevail in the cell phone and tablet world, but it has no place in our homes and our light switches. Suggesting users made the wrong call by getting into the Caseta offering is not at all helpful. You don't know what level of research each user did before committing, if it was a gradual purchase over years or one-shot, etc. Some users may have done their research, others may not have, and posting on a forum after you've become aware of the imposed cap doesn't constitute acknowledgement of it from device #1. How many devices is an acceptable number to rip and replace? For me, its zero. Personally I became aware of the cap around device 30 from seeing a thread on here. I would have thought by now that something would have been done to encourage those at the limit to continue being customers. I would gladly add shades, fan controllers and with Gator Bite's info, more switches in areas I avoided previously.

We all recognize the retail and installer markets are different entities. There are those that value paying an integrator because they want a more polished, customizable solution, they want it to just work and not have to support or troubleshoot problems, or maybe they lack the expertise, time or ambition to take it on themselves. I completely understand that mindset. Some people hire experts or tradesman and others would rather not. Caseta is a retail/DIY product and it has been positioned as such. Caseta appeals to users that want to go to HD in 5 minutes and buy another couple switches, people that want to do things at their own pace and people that want to do it themselves. So how does a 50 device limit erode the installer business? I don't see the connection and I hope, one day, Lutron will relax this limit and give us an upgrade path so I can continue to invest in what I see as the best retail/DIY offering in the space.

I do not agree sir. Why is it Lutron's fault that people did not take the time to learn their system? The cap has always been 50 devices and that information has always been available. If people wished to do the work of an integrator to save the money, they need to do the work of an integrator. This includes learning about the system you intend to put in. Lutron has casetawireless.com, lutron.com, lutron.com/support, 24 hour phone tech support, chat support and a wide network of dealers. Why is it Lutron's responsibility to change their product to compensate for those customers that did not do their due diligence and simply take 15 minutes to look at the darn product brochure?

[JustSomeGuy]

Also, from what I understand caseta has also always been classified as a multi-room solution, rather than a whole home system

[bmennear]

I do not agree sir. Why is it Lutron's fault that people did not take the time to learn their system? The cap has always been 50 devices and that information has always been available. If people wished to do the work of an integrator to save the money, they need to do the work of an integrator. This includes learning about the system you intend to put in. Lutron has casetawireless.com, lutron.com, lutron.com/support, 24 hour phone tech support, chat support and a wide network of dealers. Why is it Lutron's responsibility to change their product to compensate for those customers that did not do their due diligence and simply take 15 minutes to look at the darn product brochure?

Welcome to the conversation. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. Are you a Caseta user or a Lutron integrator? Based on your position I suspect the latter.

If Lutron didn't believe there was an issue here they wouldn't have added RA2 Select and added a note to the Bridge page on their website stating you can control 'up to 50 devices'. Back in 2014, their website did not say this. Don't believe me, feel free to check the internet archive / wayback machine and see for yourself.

Their FAQ still does not mention a device limit.

That being said, all of this is a moot point if an upgrade path exists. That is the reason this thread exists. I do appreciate that Lutron continues to allow this thread to exist. Other manufacturers may not have been as transparent. Vocal users, like myself, want a solution that doesn't involve complete rip and replace. The problem with RA2 select is

it was not available when Caseta launched. It addresses a problem for new users, but not those of us that were early adopters. If you were an early Caseta adopter or an integrator and are up to speed on Lutron's offerings, you would know this.

[JustSomeGuy]

Thank you for the welcome. Yes, we can share opinions here but I am talking about the fact that Lutron made the device limitation very well known from the beginning.

Ra2Select is no more a solution for the Caseta device limit than Caseta is as a solution for the price point of Homeworks QS. Early adopters and late adopters of ANY technology have the burden and responsibility of educating themselves about it.


Additionally, Lutron has made this information about the device limitation readily available since the systems launch at CEDIA back in 2014. Don’t believe me? Here is a YouTube link to the products launch at CEDIA 2014 (video Published on Nov 7, 2014). Fast forward to 4:25 playtime.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRxScbu1Ji4



Also, in almost every spec sheet and brochure it mentions the device limit. Should Lutron have sent out a consent form with every purchase of a Caseta device?


I understand being disappointed in fully committing to a system all while banking on it going farther than it did, but Lutron isn’t at fault for our assumptions. I am an objective integrator and I take the responsibility of my projects on myself. Besides, you mean to tell me most early adopters went out and bought more than 50 devices on day 1, and then found out they couldn’t add them all, and then got stuck with an entirely maxed out Caseta system? I don’t think so sir. There is little to no chance that someone remained completely unaware of the device limitation while they were growing their systems. I think rather, like many of my customers had, people just assumed Lutron would eventually make the system more scalable. Which they eventually did by modifying the plug-in lamp dimmer to act as an auxiliary repeater.
So, I suppose the assumption that Lutron would make the system more scalable was partially true. It just wasn’t in terms of device count. If anything Lutron did was an address to a problem, that was it: the range extender.

[SDR-Mike]

Lots of new voices in this thread. Good for the community, this site CAN change Lutron's direction. But it is a really hard rock to push. Take the Caseta Fan Speed for instance. As a rep, we were crying for this. I started a survey monkey that showed clearly that it would be supported by the community. The powers that be finally relented, and now we have it.

I appreciate that this thread has not deteriorated into name calling and mudslinging (against the terms) and a moderator has not needed to step in and ban or censure anyone. Keep up the good work, disagree civilly and with respect, and we can continue the discussion.

Had Mitch1 contacted me, I might have been able to help. Someone else did reach out, and hopefully we have a solution for him.

[bmennear]

Thank you for the welcome. Yes, we can share opinions here but I am talking about the fact that Lutron made the device limitation very well known from the beginning.
Ra2Select is no more a solution for the Caseta device limit than Caseta is as a solution for the price point of Homeworks QS. Early adopters and late adopters of ANY technology have the burden and responsibility of educating themselves about it.

I completely agree about the adopting of technology. I do not agree about RA2 Select, as when it was released it was touted as a solution between Caseta and RA2. The problem is the lack of an upgrade path for Caseta users.

Additionally, Lutron has made this information about the device limitation readily available since the systems launch at CEDIA back in 2014. Don’t believe me? Here is a YouTube link to the products launch at CEDIA 2014 (video Published on Nov 7, 2014). Fast forward to 4:25 playtime.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRxScbu1Ji4
Also, in almost every spec sheet and brochure it mentions the device limit. Should Lutron have sent out a consent form with every purchase of a Caseta device?

I appreciate you providing the link. While it is mentioned 4 minutes into the Youtube video you've provided, at the time it was not on their website, today it still isn't present in their FAQ, and there is no mention on the retail packaging. I agree it is the customer's responsibility to research their purchases, but the information wasn't as readily available back in 2014 as you are implying. I've explained how I became a Caseta user in this thread. I made retail purchases to relocate switches.

I understand being disappointed in fully committing to a system all while banking on it going farther than it did, but Lutron isn’t at fault for our assumptions. I am an objective integrator and I take the responsibility of my projects on myself. Besides, you mean to tell me most early adopters went out and bought more than 50 devices on day 1, and then found out they couldn’t add them all, and then got stuck with an entirely maxed out Caseta system? I don’t think so sir. There is little to no chance that someone remained completely unaware of the device limitation while they were growing their systems. I think rather, like many of my customers had, people just assumed Lutron would eventually make the system more scalable. Which they eventually did by modifying the plug-in lamp dimmer to act as an auxiliary repeater.
So, I suppose the assumption that Lutron would make the system more scalable was partially true. It just wasn’t in terms of device count. If anything Lutron did was an address to a problem, that was it: the range extender.

Nowhere have I suggested how users may have become Caseta users. Have a look in my earlier post on this page if you're interested in my opinion on the matter. The aux. repeater was a great addition, but isn't relevant to the device limit. Personally I wasn't aware of a device limit until 30. Beyond 30, I did assume they would eventually address this. But at that point I was 30 devices in and had invested in the platform. That is my mistake, however as SDR-Mike said above, '...this site CAN change Lutron's direction. But it is a really hard rock to push.' I, like many others in this thread, want the limit raised or an upgrade path provided that doesn't require rip and replace. I want to continue adding Caseta devices and I have been and will again be a good Caseta customer if this limit issue is addressed. Nowhere have I ever asked for this to be free solution.

I completely understand the importance of integrators as and while we clearly have different opinions on how this should be addressed I do appreciate the dialogue. I guess this boils down to I see the need for a solution, and you do not. That is fine, I'm not going to change your mind, nor you mine. I only hope that Lutron eventually sides with users in my situation on this, as I feel not addressing this by providing an upgrade path is letting them off the hook for something that many on here clearly want a resolution for.

[wkearney99]

What is with the tone deaf spectrum-like response here? Why the antagonistic tone? What's your skin in the game here? 3 posts doesn't exactly earn you much cred.