Caseta System at max Capacity

[jmw_ha]

Agree on all parts of your post, Shawn! Integrators, Pico Value, and Voice.
The integrators clients aren't generally going to come from those of us using Caseta product line in this way. They are going to be introductory installs for people with no tech nor desire. Or larger clients and whole installs.

For our niche with some tech, we are going to slowly build our systems piece by piece. It would be great if we could migrate up form the Caseta without a loss of our installed devices. Not that I have 25 or so devices, I am seeing all the possibilities and looking to bring the whole system together. At this point I would bring in an integrator for installing other devices, whole home gui interfaces, etc. But if there is no system that brings the Caseta into them, I'm not going to drop the investment I already have. Instead ill just move to other higher level systems such as Smarthings, Wink, Homekit etc. Ill buy tablets and use the apps by each vendor, etc. Ill play around with Open HA.

[Richard]

I have upwards of 44 devices on my hub now, so this discussion is very interesting to me. I'm also a highly technical person, and tend to do a lot of my own home repairs, although bringing in tradesmen where I have deficiencies.



I don't think Lutron is burying their head in the sand. Unfortunately they have a large client base of installers/designers/integrators who are likely vocal about having the DIY system be limited so that those with larger systems, or more complicated systems, must use an integrator. The problem with that concept is that any integrator that needs the DIY system to be limited for them to retain customers are probably not a very good integrator.

Before the integrators here get up in arms, what I mean by that is this: a good integrator that provides value to a customer can sell their services and maintain clients whether lower end systems are purposefully limited or not. If a potential client sees value in hiring an integrator, they will do so if they can afford it.

There are those of us in the DIY market that are going to get it done, either by working around the limitations (3rd party devices that integrate and allow cross hub automation/control), or will just move on to another manufacturer that doesn't have a limitation that causes us issues.

Earlier this year we had an unfortunate event occur that caused us to need to renovate over 1/2 our 2500 sqft home. I have a significant portion of my lighting controlled by Caseta. Since we were going down to studs and re-doing a vast majority of the electrical in the house I was able to consider using any platform for my lighting control if I wanted to. I very nearly ended up deploying Z-Wave to replace my Lutron (HomeSeer switches, as I have HomeSeer as my main hub, and those switches are very feature rich). However since I already had investment in Caseta, and I really like many of their features, I decided to stick with it. However, it was a very close decision.



While a lot of people are using voice control and it is becoming [/COLOR]ubiquitous, the Picos were the driving reason for me staying with Caseta. Firstly, every voice system I've used has been fun at first, but ultimately I feel like a huge dork talking to my technology, and I use Siri A LOT. Secondly sometimes you just need a physical switch, maybe you are going to bed and your wife is already asleep. Maybe you don't feel like jumping through the hoops and stating what you want to accomplish just right. Having a physical controller that matches the dimmers, and you can mount into a box, or straight on the wall, and make look like a normally installed switch is killer. Then when you integrate to a 3rd party system via the telnet integration and can use them as real scene controllers it becomes a whole new world.

All that being said, I plan on testing a HomePod when they are available, and since they are HomeKit based they should work in the multiple hub scenario. It is just a shame they have to, as the limitation is pretty silly.

Hi Shawn,

Thanks for your response. I still think they are missing out on potential sales for the DIYers. Whether it be a newer hub or creating an app that can control 2 hubs on the same network. Something can be done. If Echo could access 2 Lutron Accounts at the same time I would not need Lutron's help at all.

I do you Pico's to act in place of three way switches and have a couple of master pico's. I find it easier just to say " Alexa House off"

I still find it frustrating that I want to spend additional money with Lutron but I can't without throwing away my original investment.

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I have upwards of 44 devices on my hub now, so this discussion is very interesting to me. I'm also a highly technical person, and tend to do a lot of my own home repairs, although bringing in tradesmen where I have deficiencies.



I don't think Lutron is burying their head in the sand. Unfortunately they have a large client base of installers/designers/integrators who are likely vocal about having the DIY system be limited so that those with larger systems, or more complicated systems, must use an integrator. The problem with that concept is that any integrator that needs the DIY system to be limited for them to retain customers are probably not a very good integrator.

Before the integrators here get up in arms, what I mean by that is this: a good integrator that provides value to a customer can sell their services and maintain clients whether lower end systems are purposefully limited or not. If a potential client sees value in hiring an integrator, they will do so if they can afford it.

There are those of us in the DIY market that are going to get it done, either by working around the limitations (3rd party devices that integrate and allow cross hub automation/control), or will just move on to another manufacturer that doesn't have a limitation that causes us issues.

Earlier this year we had an unfortunate event occur that caused us to need to renovate over 1/2 our 2500 sqft home. I have a significant portion of my lighting controlled by Caseta. Since we were going down to studs and re-doing a vast majority of the electrical in the house I was able to consider using any platform for my lighting control if I wanted to. I very nearly ended up deploying Z-Wave to replace my Lutron (HomeSeer switches, as I have HomeSeer as my main hub, and those switches are very feature rich). However since I already had investment in Caseta, and I really like many of their features, I decided to stick with it. However, it was a very close decision.



While a lot of people are using voice control and it is becoming [/COLOR]ubiquitous, the Picos were the driving reason for me staying with Caseta. Firstly, every voice system I've used has been fun at first, but ultimately I feel like a huge dork talking to my technology, and I use Siri A LOT. Secondly sometimes you just need a physical switch, maybe you are going to bed and your wife is already asleep. Maybe you don't feel like jumping through the hoops and stating what you want to accomplish just right. Having a physical controller that matches the dimmers, and you can mount into a box, or straight on the wall, and make look like a normally installed switch is killer. Then when you integrate to a 3rd party system via the telnet integration and can use them as real scene controllers it becomes a whole new world.

All that being said, I plan on testing a HomePod when they are available, and since they are HomeKit based they should work in the multiple hub scenario. It is just a shame they have to, as the limitation is pretty silly.

Hi Shawn,

Thanks for your response. I still think they are missing out on potential sales for the DIYers. Whether it be a newer hub or creating an app that can control 2 hubs on the same network. Something can be done. If Echo could access 2 Lutron Accounts at the same time I would not need Lutron's help at all.

I do you Pico's to act in place of three way switches and have a couple of master pico's. I find it easier just to say " Alexa House off"

I still find it frustrating that I want to spend additional money with Lutron but I can't without throwing away my original investment.

[CaliforniaGuy]

Thanks for your response. I still think they are missing out on potential sales for the DIYers. Whether it be a newer hub or creating an app that can control 2 hubs on the same network. Something can be done. If Echo could access 2 Lutron Accounts at the same time I would not need Lutron's help at all.

I don't think Lutron's not aware that there's value in the DIY market and that it doesn't have to threaten integrators. In fact, it seems that some people aren't aware that they DO have a new offering for the DIY market that does address the issues of Caseta and go above 50 devices-- it's called "RA2 Select." It also supports the Caseta voice scenarios, I believe.

As I just mentioned in another thread, the main problem is that once you start investing in Caseta there is no path to upgrade to RA2 Select. That is, once you've eventually bought 50 combined Caseta dimmers/Pico remotes/Serena shades/etc., Lutron's answer is that you should rip out those 50 devices and install RA2 Select-compatible devices in their place.

Right now Lutron's product offering doesn't seem to make sense, as it's not clear why they offer Caseta, when the best case scenario leads to angry customers: people buy Caseta --> they like it --> buy more Caseta-compatible devices --> they get stuck, and are then told their best option is to rip out what they bought and installed so they can then buy and install a different thing instead.

I assume that Lutron didn't intentionally design it this way (to force their best DIY customers to pay twice: first for Caseta, and then for RA2 Select). But as far as I know, they haven't figured out how to offer an upgrade path yet. For example, there's no ability to pay $X (perhaps for a special RA2 Select hub or something) to convert a Caseta install to RA2 Select.

It's also not clear me why they keep offering Caseta, except for legacy reasons. It seems to me that all new DIY purchasers should definitely purchase RA2 Select over Caseta to future-proof their investment going forwards.

[Richard]

If they are pushing RA2 over Caseta then they should make it available in the retail stores. If you go to Home Deposit you only see Casta not RA2.

Again I am willing to spend some money here to fix the problem but I am not willing to sacrifice my existing investment.

I don’t understand LUTRON’s silence on this issue. A good conversation is all we are asking of Lutron.

It seems silly to me that we can use a 3rd party solution to fix the limitation of Lutron Caseta. You would think Lutron would rather keep a solution in house to satisfy their customers and lock in greater sales.

Please someone explain the logic.

[jmw_ha]

So true Richard. No RA2 available just Caseta. They are going to allow us to use other 3rd party system as opposed to finding away to keep us. As I look to other devices, Ill use other 3rd party systems overhead and then branch out to other vendors products as opposed to having Caseta devices for me to purchase. Lets see 50 devices * 50, 2500$ min and that's not counting any labor involved. Yeah I'm going to replace it all.
I have about 20 Sonos products. Picos work great. Would I consider buying ones for each one? Well not at first, but as I continue on, having a Pico on every rooms wall to give quick control, might happen. But as it is now, ive got to worry about 50 limit. So they are limiting the many uses I have for their great products. I'm figuring out which devices I don't "really" need Caseta full functionality with Picos, etc. Ones that I think I really don't want remote control, ill siwthc to Leviton Smart Wifi switches. In places where I just want automated on/off operation, ill avoid Caseta to keep from reaching my limit. Just don't understand it.

[CaliforniaGuy]

If they are pushing RA2 over Caseta then they should make it available in the retail stores. If you go to Home Deposit you only see Casta not RA2.

Again I am willing to spend some money here to fix the problem but I am not willing to sacrifice my existing investment.

I don’t understand LUTRON’s silence on this issue. A good conversation is all we are asking of Lutron.

First, we should be clear RA2 Select is the DIY solution with an upgrade path, RA2 usually refers to the non-DIY solution.

They aren’t pushing RA2 Select over Caseta, I agree. I’m also confused why they haven’t replaced Caseta with RA2 Select yet. Caseta just doesn’t make any sense as anyone who likes the solution will get stuck with no upgrade path.

[Shawn Parr]

First, we should be clear RA2 Select is the DIY solution with an upgrade path, RA2 usually refers to the non-DIY solution.

You keep saying this, but where do you get that information from. I have seen no indication that RA2 Select will be available from non-integrator sources (Lowe’s, Home Depot, Amazon, etc). Maybe they just aren’t shipping yet? Maybe it’s some twisted description of DIY where you have to deal with an integrator and if you’re lucky they’ll sell this product to you without design/install? Seriously, if there is official information on this out there somewhere I’d love to see it.

And the whole idea of not having an upgrade path is baffling. All the Lutron devices speak the same language. The Picos are pretty simple devices, yet the same ones can work with Caseta, RA2S, RRA2, etc, etc. Caseta may be more limited on what it can understand of the language (e.g. Caseta doesn’t support the blink command), but it is totally software that tells components of the different systems that they can’t talk to each other. They could have easily setup the RA2S bridge to talk to Caseta devices. Then they could have added a feature in the app to migrate from the SmartBridge to the RA2S bridge. Just like you can migrate from a SmartBridge to a SmartBridge Pro.

I literally just installed 2 Z-Wave fan controllers in the last 60 days. I would gladly have bought the RA2S versions and the RA2S bridge if:

1. I could migrate the Caseta switches I already had to the RA2S hub with all their programming and scenes
2. It still supports the same telnet interface for my 3rd party integration

I could then start slowing adding more RA2S devices throughout my house. As it is now I’ll either stop at 50 devices which should be feasible in my house if I don’t do shades, which I might not do due to these limitations, or start migrating to Z-Wave devices which are natively supported by my HomeSeer system and don’t have silly limitations.

[CaliforniaGuy]

I agree the setup that seems to lead their best DIY customers into getting stuck in Caseta is baffling. RA2 Select also allows for a person to start DIY, and then bring in Lutron's excellent pro ecosystem to expand on the install later. It would seems to solve everything to just replace Caseta with RA2 Select (or let Caseta upgrade to RA2 in someway via a new hub purchase).

Re:info: It's all on Lutron's website, just not promoted well: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products.../Overview.aspx and http://www.lutron.com/en-US/pages/su...e=RA2%20Select

You need to plan out the components you want yourself. Just put the part numbers into Google shopping and you'll get some Lutron distributors. If you call/email them they can also order other parts from Lutron they don't stock within a week or two.

[Richard]

Well with no Upgrade path being offered by Lutron I might just buy Wink hub for 100.00 dollars. Add my additional Lutron Switches to it and add the Wink hub to my Alexa app. I think this should work. The Alexa app should be able to access both the wink and hubs at the same time to control more than 50 devices.

Anyone see an issue with doing going his route?

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Well with no Upgrade path being offered by Lutron I might just buy Wink hub for 100.00 dollars. Add my additional Lutron Switches to it and add the Wink hub to my Alexa app. I think this should work. The Alexa app should be able to access both the wink and hubs at the same time to control more than 50 devices.

Anyone see an issue with doing going his route?

[Drconner]

Just adding my voice to the chorus of folks who are heavily invested in Caseta and want to stay DIY and find a way past the 50 device limit. I'm currently at 45 devices and I would happily add 30 more plus 16 Sonos pico controls. Then even more with shade controls.

Voice control (for now with Alexa) is a must. I have a lot of LED strip accent lights using Caseta lamp controls that require voice as adding Picos for them would blow me way past the device limit (even though I have 20+ Picos in a bag doing nothing for now).

I prefer DIY and I won't ever use an integrator as I enjoy doing this myself. I would however be open to paying an integrator for consulting services - I just prefer to do the work myself (and save money).

Thanks.