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Thread: Caseta System at max Capacity

  1. #91

    Know Your System

    I don't see this as Lutron's fault or them being stupid. They made it very clear from the beginning what the limit was. If you did not realize that, it's on you. If you thought you would be under 50, but now are not, that's on you.

    I will always tell customers if you are anywhere close to 50, just go with Ra simple, and if you are anywhere close to 100 go with Ra2. Actually, I much prefer setting up Ra2 so if I am over 60 devices I try to make the number work for the jump up not to be so painful.

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  3. #92
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    Yes, at a minimum of twice the price.

    Also, I prefer the Caseta / Pico switches. Going with RA2 Select or Radio RA2, you have a mixture ofdifferent styles of switches.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch1 View Post
    When I buy a Porsche I expect it to run like one. The Caseta system IS the top end of wireless switches! I don't want to buy some of the cheaper switches - I bought Lutron because they are the top of the line. At $50 a switch, I don't expect them to arbitrarily force a stupid limit on me in order to protect their "integrator" market! This is asinine as a business model, and will result in people like me posting where ever I can to say DON'T BUY LUTRON CASETA - THEY ARE IDIOTS! The world and market is changing. People want to be able to control their own implementations - realize this and allow us to do it, or someone else will do it and leave you behind.

    Otherwise you can be like Kodak and keep selling your film thinking that digital will never take off (even though your OWN engineers built digital cameras and say it will subsume the market). WAKE UP YOU MORONS in product management! You aren't protecting anyone! You are screwing your customers and we won't sit down quietly!

    I'm a senior executive in an IT company - and I can tell you that this is one of those moronic instances where someone at Lutron is being pressured to do something stupid, but can't see the forest for the trees! Hopefully they wake up before they lose their advantage and someone gets onto Amazon with a product that does the same thing at half the price with no limit. Then it will be game over for Caseta. (and those of us that thought Lutron wouldn't be that dumb will have to eat our own words......I'd prefer not to be that guy!)

    Every single solution worldwide is moving towards zero cost implementation/operations. Move there or exit the market.....those are your options.

    I'm off to go edit my review on Amazon and Home Depot of these switches. I hope everyone else on here does likewise.

    The DIY home automation market is still in its infancy. Once there is more real competition from a big player (ie. not cobbling together a bunch of z wave devices that may or may not work properly) they will have to remove these artificial limits to compete. Until then using 2 hubs with homekit works very well.

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  6. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    The Caseta Pro switch can only handle a 3-way application. You are describing a 3/4 way application where three switches control a light source. In this case, you can use the Caseta Pro and a standard switch, but you'll need a Pico to cover any remaining switches. A 4-way switch (required in the middle of this application) will break the circuit entirely when using Caseta dimmers/switches. This will result in a loss of power to the Caseta device and loss of all functions. Not exactly the scenario you want for a customer. This was direct for Lutron tech support when the pro dimmer and switch were released. I have them on speed dial.
    You are incorrect on this Mike. You can have an unlimited number of switches connected to that traveler wire, if you know what you're doing and can adequately apply that knowledge to your wiring. The key is to understand that the traveler wire watches for a change in state. If it's high and it goes low, it toggles the Caseta Pro dimmer switch. Same if it's low and then goes high. I have several circuits in my house that are using 2 to 4 other switches.

    If you have 2 switch locations, simply use a single pole switch to apply voltage to the traveler wire.

    If you have 3 switch locations, use two 3-way switches with the output going to the traveler.

    If you have more than 3 switches, use two 3-ways on the outside, and as many 4 ways in between as your heart desires with the output of the last 3-way going to the traveler wire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch1 View Post
    When I buy a Porsche I expect it to run like one. The Caseta system IS the top end of wireless switches! I don't want to buy some of the cheaper switches - I bought Lutron because they are the top of the line. At $50 a switch, I don't expect them to arbitrarily force a stupid limit on me in order to protect their "integrator" market!
    Once again, I fully share your frustration. But you are making a bad assumption. Caseta is not the Porsche of switches. It's the Volkswagen. Good performance, good features, reliability. When you move to RadioRA, now you've got the Audi. More performance and features. Want Porsche performance, now you're looking at Home Works QS.


    Quote Originally Posted by malba2366 View Post
    The DIY home automation market is still in its infancy. Once there is more real competition from a big player (ie. not cobbling together a bunch of z wave devices that may or may not work properly) they will have to remove these artificial limits to compete. Until then using 2 hubs with homekit works very well.
    You could be right here. That would be nice to see. The market is still in it's infancy, but it's growing very quickly. Question is, will it every reach such wide acceptance at the $3,000 + price range or will most DIY systems reside in the 2-5 switch neighborhood...?

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  8. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    The Caseta Pro switch can only handle a 3-way application. You are describing a 3/4 way application where three switches control a light source. In this case, you can use the Caseta Pro and a standard switch, but you'll need a Pico to cover any remaining switches. A 4-way switch (required in the middle of this application) will break the circuit entirely when using Caseta dimmers/switches. This will result in a loss of power to the Caseta device and loss of all functions.
    You can accomplish multiple switches (as many as you want) with a Caseta Pro Switch like this:



    The 3-ways on the ends must stay. You can add as many 4-Ways in between them as you wish.

    The Pro Switches cost a bit more ($80-$99 depending on the switch), but when you consider the cost of Picos, this can actually cost less.

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  10. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    Think of it this way- you, as a senior executive in an IT company- are being asked to make my $50 all in one router/modem/WAP combo that my cable company "gave" me or that I bought from a big box store/Amazon run an enterprise level corporate infrastructure for a $1/10/100M business. I'm sure you would be telling me that there is no way I could expect the $100 Netgear WAP/router with TP-Link wifi extenders I have to handle that level of traffic or security. Same instance here. If someone sold you this system, then they did a POOR job of it. Had I trained them (taught about 100 RadioRA2 Level 1 courses, implemented or assisted in probably 500 systems) I would personally kick him where it hurts. Understanding your needs is paramount to designing and selling the right solution, as you well know in your field. I am sorry that you are unhappy with the result, but bargain shopping a Netgear solution online can never out-perform a CCNA design Enterprise network- ever. I'm sure you would agree. Feel free to email me from my signature. I would love to help out in figuring the best course of action for using your system going forward. There are solutions out there for exceeding the system limitations. I even have a few tricks up my sleeve depending on the level of additions you need.
    I like that analogy. I think the problem comes down to the fact that we are all "Do It Yourselfers" and as such, we are limited to Caseta. If I could easily get my hands on "RadioRA Select" products and deploy them myself, I would. But I am forced to use an integrator to get started with that stuff.

    The fact that so many integrators must rely on the product manufacturer to force customers to them by imposing these limitations tells me that the integrators are doing a poor job of bringing value to the equation. Can they only be successful if people are forbidden from doing their own installations..? I don't think so. Most people do not posses the skill or understanding needed to install even a single light switch. Anyone who's eager to install more than 50 or them certainly doesn't need the help of an integrator.

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  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator Bite View Post
    The fact that so many integrators must rely on the product manufacturer to force customers to them by imposing these limitations tells me that the integrators are doing a poor job of bringing value to the equation. Can they only be successful if people are forbidden from doing their own installations..? I don't think so. Most people do not posses the skill or understanding needed to install even a single light switch. Anyone who's eager to install more than 50 or them certainly doesn't need the help of an integrator.
    100% agree. If an integrator is providing value to customers they shouldn’t need systems to be limited to force customers to use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gator Bite View Post
    If I could easily get my hands on "RadioRA Select" products and deploy them myself, I would. But I am forced to use an integrator to get started with that stuff.
    Don’t agree with this. While not as fast as just ordering from Amazon or walking into a Home Depot, there are a few Lutron dealers online that sell Ra2 and Ra2 select products. They can’t list pricing online, but an email or phone call gets you a quote and they will gladly ship to you.

    The kick in the teeth with Ra2 Select right now is that they hobble the features on the dimmers and occupancy sensors.

    When you add a switch/dimmer to the system, it resets any advanced programming features, and then you can only set the high/low trim in the app. The LED indicator level, default on level, fade up time, and fade down time are all fixed at defaults. Those features are one of the ways I can justify their cost over Caseta, but because I use Select I’m not allowed to use them.

    And the occupancy sensors send status on telnet integration on every system except Select. This is quite the pain when you are trying to integrate systems. In my case the intent was to move from Caseta to Ra2 select, Lutron has now made that more difficult for me to do.

    It is unfortunate, as I find the physical controls of the Maestro better for my situation than the Caseta. But thus far my Ra2 Select experience has been pretty awful.

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  14. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator Bite View Post
    You can accomplish multiple switches (as many as you want) with a Caseta Pro Switch like this:



    The 3-ways on the ends must stay. You can add as many 4-Ways in between them as you wish.

    The Pro Switches cost a bit more ($80-$99 depending on the switch), but when you consider the cost of Picos, this can actually cost less.
    I see how you can accomplish this via the diagram, but most wiring is not going to have the extra wire needed between the 3way-4way and between the 4ways. Did you re-wire the locations with a 4 wire romex? (Black, Red, Blue, White, Green)?
    forum formatting all screwy, so bye-bye signature,

  15. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    I see how you can accomplish this via the diagram, but most wiring is not going to have the extra wire needed between the 3way-4way and between the 4ways. Did you re-wire the locations with a 4 wire romex? (Black, Red, Blue, White, Green)?
    You are correct that you'd need the wires there. I did not have to rewire. I had three conductor romex to work with. That meant that in some cases I wasn't able to put the Caseta dimmer in the exact location I would have preferred. I had to install it where I was able to access Hot and Neutral. A couple of them really bent my brain... But I got them all working with the wires I had.

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  17. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gator Bite View Post
    You are correct that you'd need the wires there. I did not have to rewire. I had three conductor romex to work with. That meant that in some cases I wasn't able to put the Caseta dimmer in the exact location I would have preferred. I had to install it where I was able to access Hot and Neutral. A couple of them really bent my brain... But I got them all working with the wires I had.
    Just to clarify, when I say "three conductor romex", that is 3 insulated connectors + an uninsulated ground. White, Red, Black, Ground.

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