Double tap odd behavior

[vining]

We have an installation with a RA2 nuetral adaptive dimmer with 3 accessory dimmers doesn't work properly after a double tap. Everything works fine until a double tap at any location then the dimmer has to be turned off and then any location will work again, on/off, up/down. Double tap at any location and it bricks from all locations exception the dimmer. We move the dimmer to another location with just one AD and it work a little different. After a double tap the AD can't raise/lower but can on/off until the dimmer is turned of then all is good until another double tap. These are controlling LED recess lights from Lithonia and they have a good dimming range so I don't think it's a compatability issue but more like an odd DT issue. When using the RA2 CFL dimmer the DT is fine but the LED recess don't turn off, just flicker low because of the current required to operate the dimmer, I assume which is why I'm trying the nuetral adaptive dimmer. Anybody familar with this odd DT behavior?

[wkearney99]

What LED lighting is attached? What models and how many?

[vining]

What LED lighting is attached? What models and how many?

they're Lithonia recess lights I'd have to look up the specific model, there were 6 in one location and 4 in the other. If then work properly, on/off, up/down with good low end I wouldn't the double tap issue would be a compatability issue or wattage issue. They all work fine until a double tap.

- - - Updated - - -

What LED lighting is attached? What models and how many?

they're Lithonia recess lights I'd have to look up the specific model, there were 6 in one location and 4 in the other. If then work properly, on/off, up/down with good low end I wouldn't the double tap issue would be a compatability issue or wattage issue. They all work fine until a double tap.

[digit1]

This is a long shot, but have you defined the load type in the program for the 6NA, or is it set to auto?

I had a VERY odd set of behaviors when I had a 6NA set to Auto and a keypad button programmed to control the same light. Dimmer switch was fine controlling the lights, keypad was inconsistent. Once I config'd programming to force the 6NA to the appropriate control type, everything worked 100%. Does it make sense? No. Was it repeatable? yes. Did I write it down? No. It was one of those "I gotta get out of here" type problems.

I've also seen 6NA dimmers work fine in auto-mode for a period of days and then fail to turn the LED-fixture zone off. Once set to the correct phase control type in programming, no more problems.

Not sure if this is why Lutron now has "phase-selectable" dimmers instead of adaptive, but maybe it's a hint...

[vining]

This is a long shot, but have you defined the load type in the program for the 6NA, or is it set to auto?

I had a VERY odd set of behaviors when I had a 6NA set to Auto and a keypad button programmed to control the same light. Dimmer switch was fine controlling the lights, keypad was inconsistent. Once I config'd programming to force the 6NA to the appropriate control type, everything worked 100%. Does it make sense? No. Was it repeatable? yes. Did I write it down? No. It was one of those "I gotta get out of here" type problems.

I've also seen 6NA dimmers work fine in auto-mode for a period of days and then fail to turn the LED-fixture zone off. Once set to the correct phase control type in programming, no more problems.

Not sure if this is why Lutron now has "phase-selectable" dimmers instead of adaptive, but maybe it's a hint...

that's also the suggestion I got from TS this morning so hopefully it will work. I'll post the results when I get back to that job.

[digit1]

I'm guessing it worked?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm guessing it worked?

[vining]

I'm guessing it worked?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm guessing it worked?

Nope no joy. Tried forward, reverse and auto mode in adv prog setups. Tried the high end trim but nothing works. I changed the 3 Lithonia trims to Juno and everything worked fine, put back in one Lithonia trim it works, added back another it works, change the last back and again no joy again on double taps from aux dimmers again. Verified the 3 aux dimmers were wired identical the illustration sheet and it just doesn't work. CL dimmers I don't believe had this DT problem but the lights don't shut off, tried a 10ND and everything was wonky, put back in the 6NA and everything works unless someone double taps any aux dimmer, use the 6NA and it works then the aux dimmers work until another double tap on and aux dimmer. Very freakin' strange and TS is baffled. Too bad cuz their were over 60 dimmers in this job, 12 KPs, a main and 3 reps and now the owner wants to look at UPBs. The house should have been HomeWorks in the 1st place but the client was being cheap and out of no where they came up with Lithonia trims with out even checking compatibility or testing a few on site before installing them through out this 12k sq foot house and I'm stuck in the middle.

[digit1]

That sounds like a tough situation. If you can't get out of the Lithonia trims-
- have you tried a 10ND?
- can you try a test rig with a PHPM-PA?

just curious- what's a UPB?

[wkearney99]

UPB are power-line dimmers from Leviton.

Here's a thought, what's the chance the Lithonias are defective? I'd wonder if you've got the potential for a bad device, not just the design of that model.

That and with this many devices installed and the job on the line I'd consider doing something like setting up a test rig. Get it set up on a bench with known wiring (not just what "should be" in the walls) and confirm the problem repeats itself. If you're still going to be doing the switch-over I'd **** well make sure the UPB devices don't have the same problems.

[vining]

That sounds like a tough situation. If you can't get out of the Lithonia trims-
- have you tried a 10ND?
- can you try a test rig with a PHPM-PA?

just curious- what's a UPB?

10ND didn't work, don't have a phpm-pa to try and don't imagine it would be much different than the 6NA. Edit: actually then the CL or 6NA would only see the phpm-pa and ecen if the 6NA still had DT issues I should be able to use the CL which doesn't, too bad they're so pricey. /edit. The 6NA dims fine, works from aux dimmers fine until someone double taps an aux dimmer then you have to go back to the 6NA and do anything for the aux's to work again. CL dimmers don't exhibit this DT oddity but they don't allow the lights to shut off, need the neutral so current doesn't flow through the trims when off.

We haven't looked at UPBs models yet, I haven't touched one in a long time and it looks like the client is willing to live with the DT problem since the lights will typically be controlled via keypad anyway which really is true since he doesn't have that many kps but I'm not making that argument.

Again if I change just one trim the DT from aux dimmer works fine. Bizarre.