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Thread: How to take over/extract programming from existing system?

  1. #1
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    How to take over/extract programming from existing system?

    There are various scenarios here with the first being the easy scenario that everything has been backed up to the cloud, the homeowner has access to the app in which case, all they do is go to the app and give access to the new installer/dealer and things work out great. I'm not sure how that works exactly but I'm guessing that once the homeowner does that, their house shows up on my current jobs once I'm logged into the designer software?

    I am however more worried about the not so easy scenarios and how one can extract the programming when there is no cloud, what happens to the previous installer's access, and in general when ownership is unclear. If someone from Lutron or someone who knows for sure what the procedures are could explain this, I would appreciate it. It may sound like I'm overthinking it, but I have taken over jobs where the homeowner and installer have gotten into a shouting match and nearly come to blows, so I like to be prepared when I walk into an uncomfortable situation. So here are a few scenerios:

    1. Original installer disappeared, homeowner has no app access: So in this case, it's unknown whether the original installer enabled remote access, the homeowner never got access, just keypads on the wall, and there is no way to contact the original installer nor would he cooperate because there was a major falling out between them and the builder/home owner. So what now? Is there a way to manually extract the programming from the processor? Will doing so, sever the original installer's remote access/registration, if it was there to begin with? Will both have access?
    2. Original installer disappeared but nothing registered on cloud? This is more of an old fashioned Ra2 scenario where nothing is on the cloud, and nothing is registered (if that's even possible), in other words, nobody has remote access. Can I do a simple, old fashioned extraction?
    3. Original installer disappeared, but left copy of database: So again, in this case, the original dealer is nowhere to be found. Homeowner doesn't have access to the app because they are of a certain age and don't care about apps. They just want the keypads to work and pay me to make changes. They do have a copy of the database that the original installer left with them, likely on CD-ROM. If I have access to the database, can I get on the local network, find the processor, and upload my changes if another installer already has this job registered? Do they need to relinquish their access first? Will be both have access? Can I gain access, and remove their access?
    4. Multiple programmers for same house: This one is more friendly, but let's say you have the original installer who is busy but wants to let someone else at his company, or perhaps an integrator from another company to also have access to the job so they can test their integrations or make minor changes. I don't want to relinquish access and trusts that no foul will be done by the other person. Can we both have access?
    5. Dead processor, no original dealer: So let's say that you get a call that nothing is working and you go and find the processor is dead. Can the homeowner use their app to give you access to the cloud backup? What if the homeowner never had the app set up (again, you'd be surprised how many people DON'T want the app)? Can Lutron verify the address and give copy of the database?

    If someone can clarify this or add their own scenarios, I would appreciate it. Everyone I've asked just tell me not to worry about it and somehow magically I'd get access if I call Lutron.

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  3. #2
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    Thanks for your questions, we've responded to each question below:
    Q#1: The homeowner can try to pair their app with the system and if successful navigate to Settings > Help > Remote Assistance from Installer.
    If they do not get the option to enter a myLutron email address then the original installer did not enable for cloud.
    Local extraction is not supported in RA3, so the new installer will either have to obtain the original project file or default and reprogram the system.
    Q#2: Unfortunately Local Extraction is not supported in RA3 and the file would need to be rebuilt- Lutron would highly suggest enabling cloud for this new file.
    Q#3: If the original installer left a copy of the database, but did not enabled cloud access, then the new installer can use the provided "hard copy" of the project file to access the processor, and make changes. Again, Lutron would highly suggest to enable Cloud Access going forward.

    Q#4: Yes, multiple installers can have access at once (they not make changes simultaneously, but have access - yes).
    The homeowner with app access will need to share access with anyone new by navigating to Settings > Help > Remote Assistance from Installer in the app and entering the new installer's myLutron account email.
    The customer can also set how long the new installer has access to the system for (and revoke access at any time).

    Q#5: The project is stored on the cloud so if the processor is not connected dealers are still able to download the project file.
    If the client never had the app setup, then they cannot share access as mentioned in Q1's answer, since the processor would be needed for this step.
    The only way this scenario could work is if the processor was setup with cloud access before it went down and the original installer checks the Restore Last Transferred File function in the Lutron Designer Software under tools. Lastly, Lutron cannot verify the address and find the file for privacy reasons.

    Hope this helps guide you in the right direction.





  4. #3
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    Thank you, this is very helpful. Going back to Q3, if the installer has a physical copy of the database, will they still need the homeowner to give them access on their app or will they be able to go in and do what they need to do? If cloud access was given by the original installer, will they then be locked out?

  5. #4
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    I’m also curious how the multiple installers thing works. Is any installer ever locked out of a system they installed? If so, how is that decision made? By homeowner I hope

  6. #5
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    Yeah I'm a little uneasy about relying too much on the cloud to be honest because even today, there are a lot of homeowners who live in very nice houses and either don't care about the app (just want keypads) or are pretty paranoid about it. This leaves a lot of potential for abuse by installers. The original installer may be fired and decide to take their ball and go home and not leave anything behind - or worse, remotely wipe everything off because of some perceived injustice. Or perhaps the homeowner hires an AV guy to do some integration and make some changes to your programming, but then they're fired but they had changed things around and locked you out on their way out.

    There are just so many weird situations that can happen in real life. Or, people just disappear- whether they're out of business or they die. Right now, about 75% Lutron work I do is from abandoned systems where I have to go and extract the programming. Homeowners have no clue who installed it, never used an app, and most don't want an app and just want bad dimmer to work or troubleshoot issues. It seems unreasonable to expect homeowners to pay someone to completely wipe everything out and do the programming again because there isn't a local extraction method...and it puts us in a very bad spot because homeowners think we're trying to scam them. "You mean that in order to replace one burned out dimmer, you have to charge me $5000 to reprogram the entire house? Get out of here!"

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