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Thread: Are traditional 3-way and 4-way lighting circuits obsolete for new construction?

  1. #1
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    Are traditional 3-way and 4-way lighting circuits obsolete for new construction?

    I'm posting this question to the Caseta community, since the Caseta product line is so widely available and generally works very well, but really it could apply to a wide range of lighting controls. I'm questioning the need for using 3-way circuits in new construction in part because I like to specify a lot of lighting zones with recessed lighting. Wall space can get pretty crowded with multiple switches, in some situations I only have room for a double or triple gang box, so I'm thinking that using that space for 3 separate lighting circuits makes the most sense. Another issue of course is wiring costs, 3-way circuits take more cable than just single control circuits.

    Anyway, with the advent of Pico style add-on switches, I'm wondering what would be the downside of eliminating most traditional 3-way circuits to save on wiring costs or to allow the addition of more hardwired lighting zones?

  2. #2
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    Sorry, I should have also made clear that I'm asking the question in the context of smaller homes with budgets that simply don't allow higher end centralized control. For example one project I'm working on right now is 1400 sq ft, a kitchen/great room, one bath, and one bedroom. But lot's of recessed lighting... and I'm already looking at over 16 different lighting circuits for just 3 rooms!

  3. #3
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    I think you are right about the need for traditional 3-way/4-way switching. FWIW, I see the control moving to individual fixtures. Similar to Philips Hue or Lutron Ketra. We are probably a few years away from completely abandoning 3-ways.

    I don't think you will see much, if any savings from eliminating 3-ways. In my area residential electrical cost is based on a flat rate per square foot. Any deviation from that is considered an extra. In this case, the electrician probably would not charge extra but it is highly unlikely that he would reduce his price.

    I am seeing more remotely located switches. Foyer switches located in a closet for example. However, this will be an additional charge over the sqft price. Even if the switches are in a closet adjacent to the foyer. You should be careful of clustering switches. Zigbee doesn't like more than a few switches clustered together.
    Convergence Technologies Raleigh, North Carolina
    www.convergenceusa.com

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    Good point about clustering of Zigbee devices... wondering if that's why Lutron went with their proprietary wireless solution for local switching? Thinking that having say 4 zigbee or Z-wave switches in a multi-gang wall box might not be robust?

  5. #5
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    I'm late to the thread but no, under no circumstances forgo traditional 3-way wiring because Caseta can use Picos. The next homeowner may not want to use Caseta and instead use traditional switches. Hell, Caseta may be discontinued in 10 years or Pico remotes may not be a thing anymore. You're always better having the ability to go back to traditional wiring. Now if you were a millionaire living in a mansion and just wanted keypads on the wall, you could go with Ra2 or Homeworks and hide the switches but even those people find out that eventually they have to replace everything. If that's not you, stick with traditional wiring.

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  7. #6
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    We did a major remodel 6 years ago and I made my electrician nuts with the switches. We wired everything for 3-way and 4-way switches but installed Caseta switches, dimmers and Pico's all through the house. Probably $1000 in unused wire in the walls. He particularly hated running 12-3 to fans and allotting 2 spaces in a box for the fan. 5 rooms with fans. He said ALL fan controls have light controls built in.... yeah, not so much.

  8. #7
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    To be fair to your electrician, the trend now is towards DC motor fans where the light and fan are controlled via a built in controller and/or app. Even AC motor fans are using a proprietary controller now and there are no reverse switches on the fan and it's done via the remote. So in a lot of cases, people are ending up with an extra unused red wire in the ceiling and an extra switch that does nothing on their wall. As a fellow electrician though I always prefer to have an extra wire and not use it because it's a little bit of a future proofing. For example, we were working at a house that was built 15 years ago and the only lights in the room were from the light kit of an old ugly ceiling fan. The customer wanted us to add recessed lights instead so we were able to put in a much more modern looking DC motor ceiling fan for her and use the red wire in the ceiling for the recessed lights. As luck would have it, it was open truces so we were able to fish the switch legs for the recessed lights to the ceiling fan box and there was even no dry wall repair later! Without that red wire there would have been at least 2 drywall cuts.

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