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Thread: Specification Question - To be or not to be "Vive"

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Specification Question - To be or not to be "Vive"

    As with many other Lutron platforms, products are shared and interchangeable between them. What classifies the installation, strategy or solution as being one system or the other is the complete package of components installed at the site. The simplest example for comparison is the QSN-4T16-S panel which can operate as part of an "ESN System" or as part of a "Quantum System." With regards to the RMJS (ETP, RPS) line of power wireless power packs, it can work as a "ETP System" or part of a "VIVE System." The differentiator is what components the installation will have. Of course this then depends on whether or not there is a "HUB" installed as part of the scope of work, for it to be a "Quantum System," the installation needs to have some sort of Quantum Processor/Hub while for it to be a "Vive System," it needs to have some sort of Vive HubI bring this up because we occasionally have an internal discussion on whether or not the specifications on projects that list "Vive" should, by default, include a Hub just as if the specification indicated "Quantum" should include a Processor. In addition, the "message" to the specifier community is mixed as to what is a "Vive" system. Some reps use the terminology as "Energi Tri-Pak (ETP) Solution" or "Radio Pwr Solution" for a scope of work that does not include a Vive Hub while others label it as "Vive Stand-alone". It is going down the road of "Kleenex" is it a generic tissue or the name brand of a tissue. Using "VIVE" can't mean both a stand-alone room solution and a whole building solution at the same time without diluting what it is, in one case or the other.The definition of what is Vive on Lutron's website: "Vive is a simple, flexible, and scalable solution that was developed for projects that demand an intelligent system to provide basic energy savings and lighting control strategies. This can be accomplished via timeclock scheduling, energy and system monitoring, demand response load shed, and integration through BACnet with software that works on any smart device." This definition of what is "Vive" cannot be accomplished without a Hub as there is no time-clock, energy monitoring, demand response, etc without a Vive Hub. However, there is no link to the "Non-Hub" solution. For "ESN Systems" there is a navigation option on the Lutron website under "Whole Building Systems" as "Energi Savr Node Solution" which is the solution without a Quantum Hub. There is no option to navigate to a "Single-Room" or "Whole Building" solution on the Lutron navigational banner that takes you to where it is just the RMJS and a PICO or a RMJS, Sensor and PICO. So are we to assume that Lutron does not want the products to be sold unless it includes a VIVE Hub?Do we assume that Vive is just another name for Lutron's "Clear Connect" devices on Commercial projects?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Coming from a residential guy... I would just call it a Vive system and advise the user they may need to add a processor (hub) for additional capacity or features.
    Convergence Technologies Raleigh, North Carolina

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    That would be like selling a customer a HQRA-Pro and telling them they have a HomeWorks system but they need to buy a Hub and processor to get any of the features that make it a HomeWorks system.

  4. #4
    Lutron Technical Support
    Join Date
    Sep 2020


    The issue is one of superseded technology and changing model numbers. Vive and several of it's components aren't brand-new technologies but rather refinements, upgrades, and expansion on previous equipment. The family of equipment Vive arose from was the Energi Tripack and Maestro Wireless dimmers / switches. When someone say ETP it's likely more a force of habit than some kind of insinuation on their part (The specifiers I mean). That being said, I suggest to say when Vive powpaks and dimmers are being used without a Vive hub to be denoted as "Vive Standalone" and when it's tied into a Vive Hub, "Vive system". From there, if you went more complex and used the Vive Vue software with your Vive Hub(s) you'd have a, "Vive Vue system". If you went further and wanted to combine Vive Vue and Quantum Vue software then it would be what's called, "Enterprise Vue" ( I hope this clarifies things.
    Last edited by Adam K.; 10-26-2020 at 06:24 PM.

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