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Thread: Want to use a PD-5S-DV in a three-way-switch setup, but found something weird...

  1. #1
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    Want to use a PD-5S-DV in a three-way-switch setup, but found something weird...

    Hi folks,Since I have an older home, I have chose to go Lutron Caseta with a no-neutral installation method. I have found the PD-5S-DV to work great in a three way install, as well as a stand-alone single pole install.Today though, I'm stumped and so was the Lutron helpdesk person.First, did it work before I started? Yes. What is the existing install? There is a three way switch in the home, near the rear door. There is a three-way switch in the garage over 200ft away. There are two lights that are controlled by that three way switch implementation: one floodlight on a tree near the home, and one floodlights on the garage.Sounds fairly standard right? I thought so as well.Installing the PD-5S-DV in the home was no problem and straightforward like the directions say. Since the garage is over 200ft away, keeping the mechanical switch in the garage seemed to be the thing to do.When I opened up the switchbox in the garage, I expected to see the three-way switch with two travelers and a common. but on this three way switch there is another wire connected (no, not a 4 way switch with 4 screws, but three screws). The wire was doubled up.With the mechanical switch, the floodlight on the garage is active when the three-way-switch is on. The floodlight wire (12-2 plus ground) is connected to the three way switch (black wire), the light is the load, and the white wire is pigtailed in the box with other white wires.In some ways, it's smart, for a 1966 installation: why run another set of wires from one light to another if you can just complete the circuit and turn on the light when the three way becomes "on".But clearly, a non-standard installation of a three-way-switch.Here's where the weird stuff starts:1) the Home is on one panel and service. The garage (and two cabins) are on another panel and service. The garage has it's own sub-panel. So when the three way switch is on: the floodlight near the home is getting power from the house, the floodlight on the garage is getting power from the garage.2) I tried to connect the mechanical switch in as many ways that I could while keeping the garage floodlight in the circuit Nothing seemed to make the PD-5S-DV function as expected. But then again, I'm not an electrician but just a high tech homeowner.3) if I took the garage floodlight out of the mix, then the PD-5S-DV and mechanical switch combination worked as expected, but of course only lighting the floodlight near the house.So, after an afternoon of attempts and troubleshooting, the two mechanical three way switches are back in and working. PD-5S-DV not in the mix.MY IDEAS (that I don't want to do):IDEA #1 - likely I could find a way to put the garage floodlight in series with the home floodlight... but that means a lot of wire and then trenching the wire from the house floodlight to the garage floodlight. So I don't want to do that.IDEA #2 - I could treat the light in the house as a single pole switch, and install a Wemo in the garage and make that work like a three way switch via grouping using Amazon Alexa... but that is really overkill considering that two mechanical switches seem to work fine.So, the ultimate question for this:How can that PD-5S-DV / mechanical switch control both of those floodlights?

  2. #2
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    (sorry about the spacing, it still seems to be a problem for me with win10 and edge chromium)

  3. #3
    I think you're going to need to draw the circuit out. The installation documents show circuit diagrams and how the switch fits in. You'll need to figure out how your wiring and options can match up.

    But, I'm not the most hopeful you'll solve it, from your description.

    These two items jump out at me from your post: "when the three-way-switch is on" and "when the three way switch is on: the floodlight near the home is getting power from the house, the floodlight on the garage is getting power from the garage."

    A three-way doesn't really have an On and Off. It's a A/B switch, power flows through it either one path or the other. When two 3 ways on the same circuit line up a path from source to load, it's on, otherwise off.

    My limited understanding is that a circuit to be safe should only have power from one panel and one circuit breaker. This description sounds like there is power present from two independent breakers on two independent boxes on the single same switch, which sounds like a hazard. It also makes me think somewhere between the two switches, two lights, and two circuit breakers there's probably a connection you're not accounting for yet.

    I've done enough switches in our house to know that I'll probably find something I'm not expecting when I remove a switch (like a switch leg to an outlet instead of a feed to a ceiling fan hiding behind a fan remote) to know that you have to figure out what's at the other end of every wire to figure out how to install the new item correctly.

    PS: Also that my house has more switch legs instead of full circuits than I would like.

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