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Thread: Very concerned about discontinuation of Telnet and breaking existing integration

  1. #1
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    Very concerned about discontinuation of Telnet and breaking existing integration

    I'm just a Lutron guy and don't mess with Savant, C4, Crestron, etc. but often those dealers are also in the houses I have set up lighting in and link to my system. In the past, I would just update the database as soon as a new version came out because it often had positive changes - faster uploads, less errors, etc. but Starting With version 12, taking away default logins, not being up to date about what Lutron in their unilateral wisdom has decided to take away is downright scary and could be a very expensive mistake. I learned this the hard way and had to work many free hours to figure out what had gone wrong but at the end, had to get with the AV guy to change the Telnet Username and Password.With version 16 of the Designer software, Lutron will completely take away Telnet and will use an API type system. For those of you who do integration, is that something that's already being used by Savant, C4, Crestron or are they breaking Telnet without the other methods of integration already being in place? Currently, I have to take over an existing job that has Lutron and Savant, and need to know that if I ever go beyond version 15, whether it's even possible to integrate or the customer would need a new Savant system if I did. It's not a good place to be at because it means the customer won't be able to take advantage of new dimmers that will come out in the future.

  2. #2
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    Lutron has always been paranoid about security. For the longest time they didn't even use Ethernet. It was quite a thrill waiting for uploads at blazing RS232 speeds. In their defense, Telent is notoriously insecure. However, it's not like you can hack directly into Telnet. You would need to be on the network already. Could you hack Clear Connect and go backwards through the system? Maybe. The risk vs reward seems pretty low. I don't have an issue with improvements but in this case it seems like they are cutting off Telent with very little warning. They should give us a warning that Telnet is enabled and we should move to XXX.

    Similar discussion have popped up in other threads. I'm not a fan of them pushing out updates either. I know they have had success with Caseta. HomeWorks and even RadioRA are different animals. I have a corporate system with 4 processors and 400+ loads. It's a 4 hour drive from me. It has a lot of custom programming. I'm controlling the pool, a couple of fountains, some HVAC, and probably some stuff I haven't found yet. If an update breaks it, it will be a nightmare for me. Plus, corporate security will go insane if Lutron bypasses their security.
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  3. #3
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    Is that alternative API that they want to use in place of telnet even available now? Like if I updated to version 16 of the software and it broke the telnet integration, can the Savant/C4/Crestron guy come and fix things on his end yet?

  4. #4
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    They haven't officially turned Telnet off. I believe that is coming but not this month. They have removed the default logins (ex: lutron, lutron). This was widely known back door into the system. They have also changed password requirements to be the toughest in the solar system.

    Most AV companies should be able to make this minor adjustment remotely.

    In the mean time I would develop a standard username and password scheme. You could do something like the company name (slackerAV) and ownername/phone (smith5551212). Probably not the best choices but as examples go they are awesome! Anyway... you can add the login as you go so it will be ready when you upgrade.
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  5. #5
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    I thought I heard them say that version 16 (which ushers in the QSX processor) also breaks telnet, but I like your idea about having a standard scheme.

  6. #6
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    Ok, it turns out that version 16 completely REMOVES the QS processor and replaces them with QSX...and it removes the telnet logins and replaces them with an integration login (which I guess is their new API)....So while they turn around and say QS is not obsolete, then turn around the other way and remove it from the designer software. I really don't know what Lutron is thinking here...Any employees care to chime in?

  7. #7
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    Okk...last time I reply to myself but what I've found out is that version 15 is indeed the last version that will support QS, and QS as long as it's still around (which honestly makes me nervous because it sounds like it won't be long), will support telnet and in fact that's the only thing it can support because the new API with Lutron is kind of tied into the QSX hardware and the cloud capabilities. It does not however mean they can't update QS if something new comes out....they can still update version 15.x if they wanted to but pretty much it's the end of the road. I also found out that Crestron added QSX support (non-telnet) now too and Savant seems to be lagging in that department.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyCoog View Post
    Is that alternative API that they want to use in place of telnet even available now? Like if I updated to version 16 of the software and it broke the telnet integration, can the Savant/C4/Crestron guy come and fix things on his end yet?
    Echoing this question. I saw reference to this being the Lutron 'LEAP' API, but a quick search doesn't really find any details on this. Does the API exist today. It must, right? How can I start using it?

  9. #9
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    At this time the LEAP API is not available. We are working with Integration partners to help develop a driver those third parties. At this time Control4 , Josh AI, URC, ELAN and Crestron have drivers made. We are working with others for the newer drivers to be developed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh R. View Post
    At this time the LEAP API is not available. We are working with Integration partners to help develop a driver those third parties. At this time Control4 , Josh AI, URC, ELAN and Crestron have drivers made. We are working with others for the newer drivers to be developed.
    Is it going to be more generally available at some point (and if so, any idea on when)? Or is it intended to just be available to partners?

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