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Thread: Is QSX replacing QS processors or will they serve different purposes?

  1. #11
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    I'm surprised Lutron is releasing this product when it is clearly not ready.

    1. RPM support. The sheer number of RPMs in place makes this a critical feature.
    2. I know Lutron does/did bridge updates remotely. I still don't want Lutron pushing updates. I'm the one that is going to get the call from the angry customer on Saturday at 4:00 because their lighting system just crashed. Customers don't necessarily need or want every update. I have an elderly client who has been running HWI 1.32 for 11 years. She's happy so I'm happy. I have RA2 clients that I am holding at 12.0 because they like HC+ better than Connect. Not to mention you are taking money out of the dealers hands.
    3. TelNet support is critical. Without it integration programs have to be updated. For systems like Crestron or Savant that could cost more than a processor replacement.

    Ketra should have it's own processor that can be stand alone or a 2nd processor in a HomeWorks system. Then we wouldn't have any of these issues.
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyc View Post
    I'm surprised Lutron is releasing this product when it is clearly not ready. 1. RPM support. The sheer number of RPMs in place makes this a critical feature. 2. I know Lutron does/did bridge updates remotely. I still don't want Lutron pushing updates. I'm the one that is going to get the call from the angry customer on Saturday at 4:00 because their lighting system just crashed. Customers don't necessarily need or want every update. I have an elderly client who has been running HWI 1.32 for 11 years. She's happy so I'm happy. I have RA2 clients that I am holding at 12.0 because they like HC+ better than Connect. Not to mention you are taking money out of the dealers hands. 3. TelNet support is critical. Without it integration programs have to be updated. For systems like Crestron or Savant that could cost more than a processor replacement. Ketra should have it's own processor that can be stand alone or a 2nd processor in a HomeWorks system. Then we wouldn't have any of these issues.
    Hi Randyc,To address some of the concerns you are raising:1. We understand the importance of the RPM link for legacy installations. For now, we are recommending keeping RPM based systems on QS until we can provide a solution for upgrading them to QSX. For new jobs, we don’t believe the RPM link is required, as the new LED+ DIN module is a superior dimmer compared to both the 4U and 4A.2. It is possible to disable the automatic firmware upgrades so that firmware must be pushed from the PC tool as it works today, in QS. However, this is only recommended for systems that are not connected to the internet. For any system that is connected to the internet, Lutron strongly recommends allowing the automatic updates because they allow us to push important security patches and ensures continued compatibility with the app and other cloud services.3. We understand that moving away from Telnet will present difficulties and was not a decision we took lightly. Unfortunately, Telnet does not offer the level of security that Lutron requires, and so we are moving away from it in favor of more modern protocols. 4. The Ketra processor is a separate device; the Clear Connect Gateway. None of the above decisions were impacted by the addition of Ketra to the system.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh R.
    There is a new API used to integrate with QSX systems, however the protocol is not published at this time. Lutron is working directly with key integration partners to develop new drivers based on this protocol. Regarding control of HVAC from the app, while we can’t commit to a specific timeline, our engineering team will be working on rapidly filling out features like this following the release. As mentioned in the app note, features like this can be remotely deployed, delighting your customers with it post-launch / ongoing basis
    Yes but is QSX finally going to bring back the Scene Saver button model??? Its ridiculous that this feature was removed for QS, and I just dont buy the reason I get from support as "the keypad firmware doesn't support it". This is something that should be handled at the program level, and worked perfect in HWI. Not including this is a glaring omission.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh R. View Post
    Hi Randyc,To address some of the concerns you are raising:1. We understand the importance of the RPM link for legacy installations. For now, we are recommending keeping RPM based systems on QS until we can provide a solution for upgrading them to QSX. For new jobs, we don’t believe the RPM link is required, as the new LED+ DIN module is a superior dimmer compared to both the 4U and 4A.2. It is possible to disable the automatic firmware upgrades so that firmware must be pushed from the PC tool as it works today, in QS. However, this is only recommended for systems that are not connected to the internet. For any system that is connected to the internet, Lutron strongly recommends allowing the automatic updates because they allow us to push important security patches and ensures continued compatibility with the app and other cloud services.3. We understand that moving away from Telnet will present difficulties and was not a decision we took lightly. Unfortunately, Telnet does not offer the level of security that Lutron requires, and so we are moving away from it in favor of more modern protocols. 4. The Ketra processor is a separate device; the Clear Connect Gateway. None of the above decisions were impacted by the addition of Ketra to the system.
    Telnet is a perfect example of why I don't want updates automatically pushed out. It's going to break systems and at the worst possible time. "No firmware updates on Friday" is a reality outside of the controlled environment of the engineering lab. So is, "if it isn't broke, don't fix it."

    I applaud your desire to keep systems secure but it has reached the level of paranoia. My bank doesn't have the security requirements that Lutron does.

    History says Lutron is going to put the QS processor in legacy status within a couple of months of release of the QSX processor. Lutron doesn't have a timetable for when RPMs will be added to QSX. Yes, I am concerned that I won't be able to repair/upgrade RPM based systems.

    I don't see us ever selling a Ketra system so my preference is to have Ketra be it's own system that integrates with HomeWorks.

    I'd really, really, really like to see a 3rd link on the processor!
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  5. #15
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    I have to agree with Randy's concerns that updates will inevitably break something and it's the installer, NOT Lutron that will suffer from it. I had a happy customer for about 8 years that I upgraded from the original Homeworks (pre-HWI). The Audio/Video person had also integrated his system to my system and all was well and I would periodically update the system and upgraded it to version 13 one day and everything seemed fine. The next day I got a very unhappy customer on the phone asking why her touch screens weren't turning on the lights so I asked them to check with the AV guy to see if it's his system or my system and it turned out it was MY system. Without giving me an option to stick to the old Lutron:Intergration setup, all of the telnet login information was wiped off and not only that, by the time we figured out what had happened, 3 frustrating hours later, we found out that the system had locked out and would need a hard reset which meant I had to go there to do a hard reset. Security is a choice. If we are to be professionals, we should be trusted to know what situations warrant something like a multi-factor security and what doesn't need much because it's just local and if a hacker gains access to the house physically, there are bigger problems than their light scenes being compromised. I can tell you that if Telnet is gone, I will not upgrade the system because it will become useless for integration. You can't just take features that were working away. As far as RPM support goes, by making them obsolete, you have completely lost any motivation to upgrade LiteTouch systems unless you come up with an upgrade path with DIN power modules for it. I cannot in good faith sell a soon to be obsolete system to a person who is already going through the trauma of upgrading another obsolete system. I don't want to have that conversation with them again in 8 years if their QS processor dies and they're told they have to rip out all their old RPMs and put in DIN. Truthfully, I'm not a fan of RPMs because it's pretty outdated to use a Module Interface that costs so much money in each panel and can easily add $10,000 to a job but you can't get rid of something without having a replacement. Speaking of DIN panels, are they in the designer software? I swear I had looked and they weren't there. They also weren't in any of the system overviews.

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyCoog View Post
    I have to agree with Randy's concerns that updates will inevitably break something and it's the installer, NOT Lutron that will suffer from it. I had a happy customer for about 8 years that I upgraded from the original Homeworks (pre-HWI). The Audio/Video person had also integrated his system to my system and all was well and I would periodically update the system and upgraded it to version 13 one day and everything seemed fine. The next day I got a very unhappy customer on the phone asking why her touch screens weren't turning on the lights so I asked them to check with the AV guy to see if it's his system or my system and it turned out it was MY system. Without giving me an option to stick to the old Lutron:Intergration setup, all of the telnet login information was wiped off and not only that, by the time we figured out what had happened, 3 frustrating hours later, we found out that the system had locked out and would need a hard reset which meant I had to go there to do a hard reset. Security is a choice. If we are to be professionals, we should be trusted to know what situations warrant something like a multi-factor security and what doesn't need much because it's just local and if a hacker gains access to the house physically, there are bigger problems than their light scenes being compromised. I can tell you that if Telnet is gone, I will not upgrade the system because it will become useless for integration. You can't just take features that were working away. As far as RPM support goes, by making them obsolete, you have completely lost any motivation to upgrade LiteTouch systems unless you come up with an upgrade path with DIN power modules for it. I cannot in good faith sell a soon to be obsolete system to a person who is already going through the trauma of upgrading another obsolete system. I don't want to have that conversation with them again in 8 years if their QS processor dies and they're told they have to rip out all their old RPMs and put in DIN. Truthfully, I'm not a fan of RPMs because it's pretty outdated to use a Module Interface that costs so much money in each panel and can easily add $10,000 to a job but you can't get rid of something without having a replacement. Speaking of DIN panels, are they in the designer software? I swear I had looked and they weren't there. They also weren't in any of the system overviews.
    The DIN panels are in there. I believe the DIN panels with breakers are now in the software as well.

    Another missed opportunity by Lutron is 8-output modules. Everybody has them...except Lutron.
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  8. #18

    I am bidding a LiteTouch upgrade now

    Thank you for clearing things for me. The reason I was asking was explicit that I am bidding a LiteTouch upgrade now. I want to tell customer honestly that if they're going to spend all the money, they don't even want to be spending right now (on account of Savant's betrayal), that at least their system support going forward and not treated the way Lutron treated Illuminations systems -it is to tell customers that their less than a 10-year-old system that had fail need to upgrade to QS. Moreover, I like the new DIN rail module because they don't need an expensive Module Interface, so it's just getting hard to get correct information. this helped me a lot thank you kgtopg

  9. #19
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    I'm in the same boat. The customer has already been betrayed by LiteTouch. Now we have to take Lutron's word that "QS is not obsolete" but it's clear that it's going to be gone soon. RPMS are for sure obsolete. I can't in good faith tell a customer that their system is giong to be up to date for 10 years when clearly it's not. Illuminations was gone a year after QS was announced. Lutron really needs to give more assurances or at least offer a DIN retrofit for LiteTouch.

  10. #20
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    Thank you for your post SparkyCoog.

    We understand your concern here, but Lutron supports products long after they have been obsoleted. For the example you have provided of HomeWorks Illumination, Lutron is still shipping HomeWorks Illuminations processors to support existing jobs today. Even though it was replaced ten years ago. We understand how many RPM systems are deployed and it is our goal to support those customers as long as we conceivably can. Our goal is always to support products for at least 10 years after they are obsolete.

    That being said, we understand the hesitation. Wanting to move to the newer DIN solution is completely understandable. Doing so would mean they would have to replace the panels, which means extra cost. Unfortunately, we don’t have a better solution today, so you will have to weigh the costs/benefit and decide what is in your customer’s best interest or let the customer decide for themselves.

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