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Thread: RRD-6NA and the "three green lights of death"....

  1. #1
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    Mar 2014
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    RRD-6NA and the "three green lights of death"....

    I wanted to post a thread directly about this issue as I have done a lot of troubleshooting on this and have seen others with the same problems who think the dimmer has been bricked and is ruined and simply move on and toss them or return them to lutron for replacement. The issue is when you connect an RRD-6NA to certain magnetic and ELV drivers (almost always with an LED attached) the 6NA does not get the feedback from the driver it is expecting and it goes into "protect mode", which is indicated by the bottom three LED's lighting up when you press the dimmer and the load won't turn off. From what I have come to understand the 6NA starts out in reverse phase (ELV) and waits to see if the driver send the right signal back, if it doesn't, while in AUTO mode it will switch to reverse phase and if it still doesn't get the right feedback it then goes into "protect mode" to protect the dimmer. This has happened to me probably about 20 or 30 times, and I was able to recover all but one dimmer and continue using it. Most of my problems have come using Magnitude ELV and Magnetic drivers which I primarily use for LED tape light and what not. I have also experienced the problem using Juno Mini LED lights that have an integrated ELV LED driver.If you know you are using a magnetic driver, you can avoid the issue altogether using an RRD-6ND or RRD-10ND, as suggested by SDR-Mike, which only works in forward phase which is what magnetic drivers want. However you can still use the 6NA, and if you are using an ELV driver you have to use a 6na in most cases. If you want to get ahead of it, and once you know which drivers cause the problem, Install the 6NA without the load connected and then program them with the software to the right forward (magnetic) or reverse phase (ELV) in advanced settings for the dimmer, and transfer the settings before hooking up a load. Occasionally it still doesn't work and resetting the dimmer (explained later) and then reprogramming it again will most always work.Typically though, I just hook everything up normally and then go back to any 6NA dimmer that gets the "three LED's of death" and reset them then program them with the software to the correct phase if auto detect isn't working with a particular driver. This is how you reset them.... There are a few ways I have found. If you disconnect the load and hook up an incandescent load ( I use a shop light with type a bulb in it) it, it will typically reset the dimmer and it will start working again (lutron recommended method). Before I do that, to save time, I will try to remove the hot wire and the load wire and simply touch the hot wire to the load terminal screw and that will often reset it, but occasionally will not. I also accidentally discovered that if you connect hot to neutral and neutral to hot on the dimmer it will also reset it (I dont' recommend that way to anyone, but it has worked for me by accident and I used it to reset a dimmer that would not reset by any other means once). Once you have the dimmer responding again, DO NOT HOOK UP LOAD WIRE..... Instead first use the software to program the switch using advanced features to the proper forward or reverse phase mentioned above. I typically set the phase correctly, save the file, then double check that the phase is set correctly, then transfer programming to the system... you have watch while its uploading and MAKE SURE the database of the 6NA in question does not fail to upload database and give an error (typically in red font) on the activity screen during transfer. Occasionally I will have to do it twice and I will get the "three leds of death" again and have to start the process over again. Out of the maybe 30 dimmers I have had to do this with... The only dimmer that I was never able to get back was on that powered toe kick led tape lighting in a kitchen with a magnetic driver that I left on for a week or so (when you get the three lights of death, aka protect mode, the load will remain on typically. Not sure if it being left on for a lengthy period of time is related to it being frozen, but keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that their are thousands of led products and drivers out there and Lutron can not test everyone in every scenario and having "auto detect" mode that mostly works, is better than not having it at all. The auto detect, when it works is great, but this workaround can keep you from pulling your hair out when it doesn't. Tim Taylor, Taylor Electric, Santa Cruz, CA

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Oct 2013
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    1,159
    This is good info so I am reposting with some HTML tags to make it easier to read. Thanks Tim!

    I wanted to post a thread directly about this issue as I have done a lot of troubleshooting on this and have seen others with the same problems who think the dimmer has been bricked and is ruined and simply move on and toss them or return them to lutron for replacement. The issue is when you connect an RRD-6NA to certain magnetic and ELV drivers (almost always with an LED attached) the 6NA does not get the feedback from the driver it is expecting and it goes into "protect mode", which is indicated by the bottom three LED's lighting up when you press the dimmer and the load won't turn off.

    From what I have come to understand the 6NA starts out in reverse phase (ELV) and waits to see if the driver send the right signal back, if it doesn't, while in AUTO mode it will switch to reverse phase and if it still doesn't get the right feedback it then goes into "protect mode" to protect the dimmer. This has happened to me probably about 20 or 30 times, and I was able to recover all but one dimmer and continue using it. Most of my problems have come using Magnitude ELV and Magnetic drivers which I primarily use for LED tape light and what not. I have also experienced the problem using Juno Mini LED lights that have an integrated ELV LED driver.

    If you know you are using a magnetic driver, you can avoid the issue altogether using an RRD-6ND or RRD-10ND, as suggested by SDR-Mike, which only works in forward phase which is what magnetic drivers want. However you can still use the 6NA, and if you are using an ELV driver you have to use a 6na in most cases. If you want to get ahead of it, and once you know which drivers cause the problem, Install the 6NA without the load connected and then program them with the software to the right forward (magnetic) or reverse phase (ELV) in advanced settings for the dimmer, and transfer the settings before hooking up a load. Occasionally it still doesn't work and resetting the dimmer (explained later) and then reprogramming it again will most always work.

    Typically though, I just hook everything up normally and then go back to any 6NA dimmer that gets the "three LED's of death" and reset them then program them with the software to the correct phase if auto detect isn't working with a particular driver.

    This is how you reset them.... There are a few ways I have found. If you disconnect the load and hook up an incandescent load ( I use a shop light with type a bulb in it) it, it will typically reset the dimmer and it will start working again (lutron recommended method). Before I do that, to save time, I will try to remove the hot wire and the load wire and simply touch the hot wire to the load terminal screw and that will often reset it, but occasionally will not. I also accidentally discovered that if you connect hot to neutral and neutral to hot on the dimmer it will also reset it (I dont' recommend that way to anyone, but it has worked for me by accident and I used it to reset a dimmer that would not reset by any other means once).

    Once you have the dimmer responding again, DO NOT HOOK UP LOAD WIRE..... Instead first use the software to program the switch using advanced features to the proper forward or reverse phase mentioned above. I typically set the phase correctly, save the file, then double check that the phase is set correctly, then transfer programming to the system... you have watch while its uploading and MAKE SURE the database of the 6NA in question does not fail to upload database and give an error (typically in red font) on the activity screen during transfer. Occasionally I will have to do it twice and I will get the "three leds of death" again and have to start the process over again. Out of the maybe 30 dimmers I have had to do this with... The only dimmer that I was never able to get back was on that powered toe kick led tape lighting in a kitchen with a magnetic driver that I left on for a week or so (when you get the three lights of death, aka protect mode, the load will remain on typically. Not sure if it being left on for a lengthy period of time is related to it being frozen, but keep that in mind.

    Also keep in mind that their are thousands of led products and drivers out there and Lutron can not test everyone in every scenario and having "auto detect" mode that mostly works, is better than not having it at all. The auto detect, when it works is great, but this workaround can keep you from pulling your hair out when it doesn't.

    Tim Taylor, Taylor Electric, Santa Cruz, CA
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    1,159
    Another cause of the 3-LEDs is MOV/surge protection failure. There is no recovery from MOV failure.
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    1,189
    The MOV/Surge protection is the major fault I always encounter. There is an abundance of Sebco LED drivers here in San Diego. They cause this failure in about 98.765381% of 6NA dimmers.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  5. #5
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    Oct 2013
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    196

    Cool

    Seriously, 1%? I heard it was more like 98.765382% Details are important SDR.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchE View Post
    Seriously, 1%? I heard it was more like 98.765382% Details are important SDR.
    Thank you, my posts have had the paragraphs taken out for some reason.

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