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Thread: 2 Inclusive RR2 systems in one home?

  1. #1

    2 Inclusive RR2 systems in one home?

    My company is in the design phase of a 22,000 sq/ft house with an 8000 sq/ft pool/guest house that the homeowner wants Radio Ra2 for lighting and shade control. As the electrical contractor I have discussed with the GC and homeowner that Radio Ra2 is not designed for for a house this size and Homeworks would be more suitable. The homeowner is 100% against Homeworks because of previous bad experiences. Is it possible to have 2 Inclusive systems (4 main repeaters = 400 total devices)? If so, will both systems show up on the Lutron Connect app.
    Nick Wyatt
    Wyatt Electric Inc.
    410-557-8557

  2. #2
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    It is possible. They would be 2 independent systems - no communication between them. You will have to switch between systems (homes) in the app.

    It seems owners that are that set against HomeWorks are actually frustrated with RPMs. They don't like not being able to control the loads. The new DIN RPMs have buttons that allow you to turn each zone on/off.

    As you know, with HomeWorks you can have a RF dimmer based system that looks just like RR2 but is a single system.
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt Electric Inc View Post
    My company is in the design phase of a 22,000 sq/ft house with an 8000 sq/ft pool/guest house that the homeowner wants Radio Ra2 for lighting and shade control. As the electrical contractor I have discussed with the GC and homeowner that Radio Ra2 is not designed for for a house this size and Homeworks would be more suitable. The homeowner is 100% against Homeworks because of previous bad experiences. Is it possible to have 2 Inclusive systems (4 main repeaters = 400 total devices)? If so, will both systems show up on the Lutron Connect app.
    You need to do a better job informing your client that there is no user discernable difference between RA2 and QS. The main reason client think they like RA2 over QS is because there are no remote dimming panels which usually means there is a local control which will always work even if the processor or MI fails. Although I’ve seem some that use remote dimmers and local keypads because it is a little cheaper. Clients that like RA2 over QS typically don’t like keypads except in a couple locals if at all. You can do everything he wants with QS, all local dimmers, a few if any keypads and the only thing different will be the color of the processor and the printed name. QS however gives them options that RA2 won’t.

    I just did a large system that wanted RA2 but I Installed QS and we have 0 keypads, 0 dimming panels, 150 dimmers, 24 T-Stats and 24 SeaTemps. I have to do some funky stuff with the heating so I through in an AMX processor for some behind the scenes logic and an HAI processor to do remote temp and humidity sensing as well as the lutron flush sensors for each Lutron T-Stat.
    VAV
    Danbury, CT

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by vining View Post
    You need to do a better job informing your client that there is no user discernable difference between RA2 and QS. The main reason client think they like RA2 over QS is because there are no remote dimming panels which usually means there is a local control which will always work even if the processor or MI fails. Although I’ve seem some that use remote dimmers and local keypads because it is a little cheaper. Clients that like RA2 over QS typically don’t like keypads except in a couple locals if at all. You can do everything he wants with QS, all local dimmers, a few if any keypads and the only thing different will be the color of the processor and the printed name. QS however gives them options that RA2 won’t.

    I just did a large system that wanted RA2 but I Installed QS and we have 0 keypads, 0 dimming panels, 150 dimmers, 24 T-Stats and 24

    SeaTemps. I have to do some funky stuff with the heating so I through in an AMX processor for some behind the scenes logic and an HAI processor to do remote temp and humidity sensing as well as the lutron flush sensors for each Lutron T-Stat.
    The GC and I have told the Home owner multiple times that QS is not the old Homeworks system and is pretty much a larger scale RR2 system but they are still 100% against it even with showing evidence of the similarities. I’m going to keep pushing Homeworks though, Thanks for the feedback.
    Nick Wyatt
    Wyatt Electric Inc.
    410-557-8557

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by randyc View Post
    It is possible. They would be 2 independent systems - no communication between them. You will have to switch between systems (homes) in the app.

    It seems owners that are that set against HomeWorks are actually frustrated with RPMs. They don't like not being able to control the loads. The new DIN RPMs have buttons that allow you to turn each zone on/off.

    As you know, with HomeWorks you can have a RF dimmer based system that looks just like RR2 but is a single system.
    Great, thanks for the information.
    Nick Wyatt
    Wyatt Electric Inc.
    410-557-8557

  6. #6
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    I would try to find out exactly what they didn't like about HomeWorks. A poorly designed system can lead to a lot of frustration. The car analogy can be helpful at times. "You are building a Lamborghini with a 3-cylinder Chevette engine."

    Some owners are not tech savvy. They rely on ole Uncle Joe who says, "What ever you do, don't let them put in HomeWorks." Of course, Uncle Joe has never had a HomeWorks system but that isn't relative. I'd throw another name out there. Maybe Crestron. If they bite on Crestron you have cracked the Uncle Joes armor.

    Way back when... before HomeWorks had RF capacity and RadioRA had a limit of 32 zones, we used AMX to monitor one system and relay commands to the 2nd system. You have to be careful with the design so there is no latency. For example, put all of the exterior lights on the same system so they all come on at the same time. Put the first floor together so the dining room doesn't turn on 10 seconds after the kitchen.

    Good luck!
    LED, Incorporated
    Raleigh, NC 27614

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  8. #7
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    Push comes to shove, sell HWQS wireless. A bit more $$ than standard panels, but the homeowner can have the local control he wants. Also keypads where needed. Looks just like RA2, and uses the same Connect app. I would highly discourage the twin Inclusive systems. Especially if Pico's and occ sensors are part of the equation. You'd have to get the frequency shift for these devices on three of the four main repeaters- lots of extra time and a nightmare when you need to move from one repeater to another. And Homeworks will give you FAR more flexibility in programming when the homeowner suddenly wants something RA2 can't do- easy example is combining multiple single pole switch legs into "one".
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

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