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Thread: Lights flash when turned on

  1. #21
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    Exclamation Also experiencing flash issue with supposedly compatible LEDs

    I installed my first Caseta switches in April of this year. In my kitchen I have five recessed cans attached to one switch. I replaced my existing switch with a Caseta PD-6WCL switch. I installed EcoSmart 75-Watt Equivalent BR40 Dimmable LED lights (120 VAC, 60 Hz, 140 mA, 12.5 W, 2700K, 940 Lumens 2018GT) into each of the five recessed cans.When I first started using this in April it worked like a charm. I didn't even need to adjust the low- or high-end dimming levels. They faded on slowly to full brightness and they faded off as expected. They also responded promptly when I adjusted the dimming levels using HomeKit, Alexa, and the Lutron app.In June, I started to notice some unexpected behavior. When I turned the lights on by pressing the physical switch on the PD-6WCL the five ceiling lights would do nothing, then flicker on full brightness, then turn off and fade back on to full brightness. This behavior has been consistent since it started. Around the same time it started happening with two other PD-6WCL switches in my kitchen that power a single pair of lights, each (which are also using EcoSmart LED bulbs).I do not notice this behavior with other, less frequently used PD-6WCL switches in my house.I've tried adjusting the low-end of the fade trim up on the lights that are flashing on then turning off. No luck. If I could completely disable the fade on/off functionality on the PD-6WCL I would to workaround this problem, but it looks like it's not possible to change this.Here is the Lutron compatibility report for the EcoSmart bulb closest to the model I'm using. It is for a 65W equivalent version of the EcoSmart R30 (Model 1003012803). I am using the 75W equivalent (Model 1003024002).
    Last edited by briankelly; 08-25-2019 at 12:11 PM. Reason: trying to fix formatting

  2. #22
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    BUMP. LUTRON, So what is the solution to this? If there is no working solution then i would like to get the money back for the product. It is already past return policy where i bought my switches from either give me a solution how to fix it or please give money back and will ship back all my 11 light switches.

  3. #23
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    Unhappy Same behavior

    I bought eight PD-6WCL ready to install in my new home; just installed one to control 2 recessed LED retrofit cans and same behavior as everyone else in this thread:Cold start: Lights flash on and off at full brightness, then finally on. Will continue this behavior until lights have been on for a couple minutes.I thought it was my wiring connection (re-did it), and also tried a different retrofit (Feit then Philips), moved back to bulbs (Philips BR20 LED), all the same behavior.(Also have LED flashing on/off issue when switch is off on non-dimmables using PD-5ANS, sigh not a good start integrating Lutron Caseta stuff!)

  4. #24
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    @grezex- try replacing the bulbs with regular incandescent and see if the problem goes away. Your problem sounds like an underwattage issue for the non-neutral PD-6WCL dimmers. All of Lutron's non-neutral digital dimmers can exhibit this behavior, it's not relegated to Caseta. One solution would be to replace the troubling dimmer with the PD-10NXD neutral Pro dimmer. What really peaks my interest is that you are having the same issue with the PD-5ANS neutral switch. Is the neutral wire being used for that switch? You may need to have an electrician come and look at your particular home to diagnose correctly- you may have some transient voltage coming from the neutral.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    @grezex- try replacing the bulbs with regular incandescent and see if the problem goes away. Your problem sounds like an underwattage issue for the non-neutral PD-6WCL dimmers. All of Lutron's non-neutral digital dimmers can exhibit this behavior, it's not relegated to Caseta. One solution would be to replace the troubling dimmer with the PD-10NXD neutral Pro dimmer. What really peaks my interest is that you are having the same issue with the PD-5ANS neutral switch. Is the neutral wire being used for that switch? You may need to have an electrician come and look at your particular home to diagnose correctly- you may have some transient voltage coming from the neutral.
    Appreciate the reply. It doesn't happen with old GE incandescents, but there will be really loud buzzing even at full. With the LED retrofits it will turn fully on then off, and then on again; while incandescents will slowly rise to full brightness from dim when turning on.I have neutrals available, perhaps I'll need to replace my switches with PD-10NXD (seems double the price)?

    The PD-5ANS is actually a little different behavior, after turning off, one of the two recessed lights will blink/flash every minute or so (but will stop after a while).Also, these are on non dimmable 4-pin G24 bulbs rather than standard E26's on separate circuits.

    Thanks.

  6. #26
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    @grezex- ugh, dimmable 4 pin fluorescent replacements. Should be fine with the PD-5ANS, but you might try and source an LUT-MLC and add that in. Those bulbs are notorious for being super cheap inside- designed around commercial retrofits with standard switches. The LUT-MLC might help, and it isn't that expensive. Would be useful also if any of the PD-6WCLs start to flicker a bit or ghost when off. Considering the incandescents dim fine with the PD-6WCL, you should see a lot better performance with the neutral PD-10NXD. The neutral dimmers have a 10W minimum load for incandescent, vs. the 50W min for non-neutral. The min loads are always for incandescent loads. LEDs have a tendency to do tricky things to digital dimmers without neutrals- lots of feedback issues causing flickering, pops, and such.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDR-Mike View Post
    @grezex- ugh, dimmable 4 pin fluorescent replacements. Should be fine with the PD-5ANS, but you might try and source an LUT-MLC and add that in. Those bulbs are notorious for being super cheap inside- designed around commercial retrofits with standard switches. The LUT-MLC might help, and it isn't that expensive. Would be useful also if any of the PD-6WCLs start to flicker a bit or ghost when off. Considering the incandescents dim fine with the PD-6WCL, you should see a lot better performance with the neutral PD-10NXD. The neutral dimmers have a 10W minimum load for incandescent, vs. the 50W min for non-neutral. The min loads are always for incandescent loads. LEDs have a tendency to do tricky things to digital dimmers without neutrals- lots of feedback issues causing flickering, pops, and such.
    Using LUT-MLC to help is encouraging. Mostly have read those don't really help, but didn't have much basis.
    I have so many 4-pin non-dimmables :( I felt it was cheaper to get a special plugin retrofit kit from homedepot or a philips 4-pin LED than have an electrician bypass the ballast.
    I was surprised to see the "ghosting" while off behavior with PD-5ANS since it doesn't involve dimming.

    As for the PD-6WCL on/off behavior, I'll give LUT-MLC a go too, I did find it odd it being neutral-less, your explanation makes a lot of sense.

    Thanks again for the response, appreciate it!

  8. #28
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    Your bulbs may be dimmable, it comes down to the ballast that originally was installed. If you bypassed the ballast, then it is solely the bulb's ability to dim. Ghosting comes from the digital dimmer or switch. They need a small amount of power to keep the radio, processor, and LED feedback online. This bleeds across to the fixture. Fluorescent and LED need very little power to stay on once lit, so this small amperage can sometimes result in the bulb not turning completely off- thus "ghosting". More common on LEDs than fluorescent. It is what the MLC was designed for, and they ship with the non-neutral switch (PD-5WS-DV-WH). I've had pretty good luck using them to cancel most ghosting issues on several different Lutron products. Sometimes can even reduce or eliminate flicker, but that's not their intended purpose.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  9. #29
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    This is the issue i am having not sure if the links are allowed or not but i feel like Lutron should come up with the solution since it is happening to most of us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUUvmHhg4Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RG1Qcy_VU4 Solution anyone?

  10. #30
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    @friscovirus- Links are fine. There isn't much Lutron can really do about it. There is some characteristic of the LED driver that causes this. Have you tried a different LED? Try replacing with incandescents. I would also try adjusting the low-end trim. I've found that LEDs on the Lutron list are often better with dimming performance, their being on the list doesn't guarantee perfect performance. Manufacturers change driver design all the time. In general, you most often get what you pay for. You could also try using the PD-5NE ELV dimmer. There is no standardization of compatibility between LED and dimmer, so it's somewhat of a crapshoot. Hope this helps!
    Evan Kirkhart- Home Electronics Solutions
    evan@homeelectronics.solutions

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