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Thread: Adjustable fade rates for Caseta dimmer?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by davisadm View Post
    Nobody is asking Caseta dimmers to have HomeWorks features and I don't understand why the two are being compared.
    I'm just asking for features that I had in the cheaper Maestro dimmers that I bought way back in 2004. I didn't expect the more expensive Caseta dimmers to have so many core functions removed.

  2. #22
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    Lutron - Please Listen!!

    Not having the ability to program or do "fast on" / "fast off" from a regular caseta dimmer is just silly! ... Why, you might ask ... let me count the ways:

    1) As mentioned before, the simpler, older Maestro had this functionality, yet caseta doesn't?? Now we're taking away useful features on a new, more expensive versions of a product?? (And someone is talking about how much "extra memory" is needed locally to do this, and why it would cost more? Really? Memory in the computer world is virtually free these days - you can get 8 gigs of ssd memory for $20, you can get an 8 gb micro ad card for $7 (both with shipping included). )

    2) the caseta plug-in dimmer modules already have this ability. Not giving it to the dimmers that work on the same system is just illogical.

    3) I have the simple control (ex-Roomie) system, and I can program the lights to go fast on or off there. And that command gets executed by the in-wall dimmers!! So I just can't see how letting the dimmers do the same thing when you press them can be such a big deal.

    4) people say, "just get the simple on/off switch", but when you have a 3-6 gang set up in some parts of the house, and you want the install to look clean, and you have some lights that are dimmable (or that you want to be able to dim), and some that you don't - then you want to be able to install a row of 4-switch dimmers (not some 2 and some 4-switch) and program each one according to the lights. (I have this same issue - but to a much lesser extent - with the 5-button Pico's, but those are close enough in look, that it's not as noticeable - and I think the older 4 button picos have all the functions except for the "favorite" round button, so you can always get those for a virtually identical look)

    You really should create a simple way to add this functionality through the app (version 5.1?) ... and while you're at it, please allow us to re-order our lights on the home screen, like we were able to do in the previous version.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
    I'm just asking for features that I had in the cheaper Maestro dimmers that I bought way back in 2004. I didn't expect the more expensive Caseta dimmers to have so many core functions removed.
    2004 = no radio in the dimmer and no LED compatibility at all. The core design of the dimmer changed to accommodate LED dimming. It's not a Leviton where they added a resistor to an incandescent dimmer and set the low end trim to 20% fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goranp
    2) the caseta plug-in dimmer modules already have this ability. Not giving it to the dimmers that work on the same system is just illogical.


    While I agree this would be nice, there just isn't space in the dimmer ot make this happen and still fit in the wall. The only two devices that have this feature are significantly larger than a one gang box the dimmers need to fit into.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  4. #24
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    Mike, fair enough. But then how come I can do it by using the smart control app? I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand the full workings of the caseta system / radio / dimmer / etc. but Isn't the smart control just sending the dimmer a signal saying "fast off"? And wouldn't it be trivial to be able to program the physical dimmer so that a button press on the dimmer accomplishes the same thing? How would that require a larger unit? What am I missing?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goranp View Post
    Mike, fair enough. But then how come I can do it by using the smart control app? I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand the full workings of the caseta system / radio / dimmer / etc. but Isn't the smart control just sending the dimmer a signal saying "fast off"? And wouldn't it be trivial to be able to program the physical dimmer so that a button press on the dimmer accomplishes the same thing? How would that require a larger unit? What am I missing?
    Great question. It lies in how the group networking design works on a 434 MHz system in Clear Connect. The command sent is extremely short, something like "Preset 1". All devices hear this command and then compare to their own internal database. If they are programmed to respond to "Preset 1", then they will respond and send a "complete" response to the system. Every device has an internal database. Think of it as a playbook on a football team (American Football). The quarterback or coach can call a play with a short and simple command instead of having to tell each player what to do individually. The play can be changed rapidly by another short command. The different players never have to know, or be told, what the other players are doing. They only respond with their job, regardless of what goes on around them with other devices.
    Business Development Associate- Design, Sales, Installation, and Programming of Smart Homes for Baker Electric Home Energy
    mbalay@bakerhomeenergy.com
    "Spread the light, brother" -Blake Richetta
    "If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur" -Crustyloafer

  6. #26
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    In case anyone is wondering, the Caseta PD-6WCL has 64KB flash and a measly 2KB of EEPROM memory embedded into it's main processor. The RadioRA2 RRC-6CL dimmer has a completely different processor which has 128KB of flash and an external 64KB EEPROM. So I agree with the argument that there is more memory available on the RadioRA2 dimmers (Homeworks QS is using the same hardware on their latest dimmers with the only difference being the firmware loaded).

    The latest variants of RRA2/HWQS devices have now switched over to using the same manufacturer of processor that they've been using for Caseta devices. There is still a difference between the processors used in each which is roughly the same as I've already explained above but we're talking a difference of roughly $1 on BOM costs. So basically, Lutron has decided to regress some features of lesser previous gen switches in order to save some money. I can only imagine how that decision was ultimately made... Mr. Spira developed five principles that should have never allowed this to happen!!

    So with all that said... Lutron executives; Please reconsider your strategy. You've got a good thing going. Don't become complacent in today's rapidly evolving smart home market. Stay competitive, offer your customers options and please don't become the next Blackberry because you didn't act quickly enough. Maybe you could start using the same hardware across all your product lines for new devices. (It seems you may already be doing this to some degree) Then you could give us the option to buy the level of device we need or pay to upgrade it later. Thanks for listening! :)

  7. #27
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    I was thinking more about the "memory issue" for Caseta devices being the main reason for the 50 device limit...

    The range of the Caseta system is limited by the bridge and a single "extender" aka PD-3PCL-WH (Caseta lamp dimmer). I wonder what the official reason for this reason is... but honestly, I find it hard to believe there is a really good reason like say... the bridge is lacking the memory to support more than 1 range extender ;)

    Maybe the answer to all our problems lies in the bridges themselves... but they're not really a bridge, are they?? They're really just routers! A true network "bridge" would create a single aggregate network from multiple network segments. Simply by allowing two bridges to connect (over whatever Lutron decides is best... LAN/WLAN/ClearConnect) would enable users to support 50 devices simply by adding additional bridges. Obviously, the 50 device limit would exist within the wireless range of each bridge but you would kill two birds with one stone; Allow multiple bridges on the same system effectively removing the 50 device limit and easing the issues with wireless range by enabling each bridge to act as an access point within a single Caseta network.

  8. #28
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    I just signed up to the Lutron forum so I could respond to this. Let's say this memory thing is accurate (I don't know enough about the hardware to say it is). Lutron should, via firmware/software at least allow us to adjust the dimming speed of commands sent from the Hub, no? As has been stated there is a clear different on commands from the hub vs. commands from the switch so there has to be 'something' there that can be taken advantage of - even if it's just two different speeds. If this is the case then potentially the switches could first look to the hub when a button is pressed, see what speed they should do, and then excuse the command as well.

  9. #29
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    Let's be honest, the whole piece of code that does "gradual off" "gradual on" was a terrible idea to begin with. It's obviously not what anyone expects from a light switch, and is only going to annoy (and what it looks like it totally dependent on the type of lights installed!). Hopefully lutron at some points decides to save some bytes in the firmware and just deletes that bad idea in favor of the buttons turning the lights on/off. Which I can do right now using the pylutron_caseta python API and let me tell you it's a lot more aesthetically pleasing.

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