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Thread: 0-10V Infratech heater with TVMs

  1. #1
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    0-10V Infratech heater with TVMs

    We had this question from a customer and though it would be worth sharing it.

    We have a HomeWorks system that we need to add controls for Infratech heaters that need 0-10v control. The heater loads will not be on HomeWorks but on a separate Infratech control system. All HomeWorks needs to provide is 0-10v signal to the Infratech control panel to turn on/off and dim the heaters. There are four separate dimming control zones at house.
    Can I put a TVM-KIT and a couple TVM2's in a PNL-8 with a RPM-4u to get the proper 0-10v signal to send to Infratech controls? I won't need to RPM-4U to control the loads but I think I need RPM-4U to assign the heater switch legs into the system. Will this work without heater loads being connected to RPM-4U? Do I need to provide 10v transformer for 10v source or does the TVM2 provide 10v source?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armando B. View Post
    Can I put a TVM-KIT and a couple TVM2's in a PNL-8 with a RPM-4u to get the proper 0-10v signal to send to Infratech controls?
    Yes you can use the TVM-KIT with the TVM2 to control the heaters.

    Quote Quote
    I won't need to RPM-4U to control the loads but I think I need RPM-4U to assign the heater switch legs into the system. Will this work without heater loads being connected to RPM-4U?
    The TVM2s can control the loads without connecting to the RPM-4Us. The issues you may run into is when the TVM2s dim down to 0Vs it may not turn the heaters off because they are being powered by a third party source. It would be wise to run the RPM-4U outputs to relays to control these heaters and ensure they are off when you tell the system to turn them off.

    The loads will still need to be assigned in the software because the TVM2s map to the RPM-4U outputs. See http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...y/041-169a.pdf spec sheet for the correct output mapping.

    Quote Quote
    Do I need to provide 10v transformer for 10v source or does the TVM2 provide 10v source?
    The TVM2s have the ability to source the 10Vs.

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  4. #3
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    What is the recommend load type to assign to the TVM2 outputs? LED 0-10v doesn't really allow for setting the low end trim to true zero which is what the Infratech panel needs to turn them off fully. :(

  5. #4
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    Both LED 0-10V and Fluorescent 0-10V will be able to go down to low end of 1%. If the heater is also being powered via line voltage of an RPM output, it would turn off if you lower it beyond that. If you are not powering the heater from the RPM output, could you please describe the connections powering and controlling the heater?

  6. #5
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    It's connected exactly as you described Armando B. in your opening post. The heaters are 208v and are powered by a built to order Infratech Control Panel that has an output to each heater. The output control "relay" accepts the 0-10v from the TVM2 to adjust the output level with 0 being off, but you power the whole thing separately with a constant with 150amp (at least in this case) feed. It all works, but I need the trim to go all the way down. I haven't been back on-site to try it with a low-end set to 1, so that may do it and I just don't know it yet. However, I can tell you with it set to 10, which is the default in Designer for LED 0-10v, the output voltage reads ~20v at the "OFF" setting which isn't enough.

    The challenge is that all I hear is how "this works" from both Infratech and Lutron, but nobody seems to really have a document on exactly how. :/

  7. #6
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    Please be aware the low end trim will not be able to go below 1%. From our experience with these heaters along with the issue you are experiencing, we would recommend connecting the corresponding RPM output to a relay that meets the minimum load requirement of the RPM module that can switch the 208v of the heater. When the load is turned off the RPM output turns off which in turn will turn off power to the heater.

  8. #7
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    We are trying to control the same Infratech heater controller using RA2. See my thread on the RA2 forum.

    https://forums.lutron.com/showthread...=5945#post5945

  9. #8
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    Why not use the 4U to power a relay between the TVI and the Infratech? When the system is "on", the low-voltage control signal between the TVI and Infratech would be complete. When the system is "off" the relay would be open and the Infratech would see zero volts.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by digit1 View Post
    Why not use the 4U to power a relay between the TVI and the Infratech? When the system is "on", the low-voltage control signal between the TVI and Infratech would be complete. When the system is "off" the relay would be open and the Infratech would see zero volts.
    digit1,

    The Infratech heaters do not source the 10Vs and because of this you are unable to use the GRX-TVI. The GRX-TVI is also a sinking device that will not output 10V on the 0-10V control signal. The GRX-TVI will need to have the 10V sourced to it. For this reason we recommend the GRX-TVM2 because it can source or sink the 10V.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin P. View Post
    digit1,

    The Infratech heaters do not source the 10Vs and because of this you are unable to use the GRX-TVI. The GRX-TVI is also a sinking device that will not output 10V on the 0-10V control signal. The GRX-TVI will need to have the 10V sourced to it. For this reason we recommend the GRX-TVM2 because it can source or sink the 10V.
    Sorry, it sounds like I was as clear as mud. The reason I was responding was this observation:

    "The output control "relay" accepts the 0-10v from the TVM2 to adjust the output level with 0 being off, but you power the whole thing separately with a constant with 150amp (at least in this case) feed. It all works, but I need the trim to go all the way down. I haven't been back on-site to try it with a low-end set to 1, so that may do it and I just don't know it yet. However, I can tell you with it set to 10, which is the default in Designer for LED 0-10v, the output voltage reads ~20v at the "OFF" setting which isn't enough."

    If the concern is that the TVI controller (whatever the type: TVI, TVM2, RMJ) does not 'turn off' the Infratech 0-10V input because it always outputs voltage on the 0-10v line even at the low end, why not insert a relay between the 0-10v devices? This relay can be triggered so that when the heat source is supposed to turn off, the relay is opened. When the heat source is supposed to turn on, the relay is closed and the 0-10v controller defines the heat output level.

    With the TVM2 kit, the 4U would switch this control disconnect relay on and off. With the RMJ, the red switched output could work the same way. With a TVI, I would think a 10v DC wall wart would be a simple addition, and then the TVI switched output could switch this same control circuit disconnect relay that I'm suggesting.

    The reason I'm suggesting using a relay to disconnect the 0-10V control line is because a relay/contactor to interrupt a 150amp circuit would be a whole lot more expensive.

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