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Hi,
Since Sunnata RA3 and homeworks RA3 are identical in hardware and only firmware locked. Can Lutron offer an upgrade path via license unlock (i.e. $100 per dimmer) that way customers can move up to maybe ketra bulbs or more control. without them feeling guilty about trowing away their perfectly working ra3 system.
lutron team: thank you for listening.
They could probably do this for all of their systems. I doubt if the hardware in a Caseta dimmer is any different than Clear Connect A Ra2, Ra3, or Homeworks devices and just a flip of a bit in the firmware could change it. The problem is the marketing department. They couldn't even bring themselves up to let Radio Ra2 users to use their Grafik Eye and Grafik T devices on Ra3. Those were all Premium priced products and there is no technical reason to not do it. Yeah, maybe it would have taken them a week of dev time to add those profiles on Lutron Designer but then they already had those for Homeworks so I really doubt if would have even taken them that long. The problem I'm afraid is that a few MBAs on the top of the ladder decided that there is more money in selling new parts than to allow reuse of older parts on the new systems. I'm sure they had a nice graph and powerpoint presentation and everything with projections and such, but in this case, there is a disconnect between what Lutron thinks is best and what customers and dealers think it's best.
Ra2 came out around 2010 before LED bulbs were in widespread use, before many people even had smart phones, the cloud wasn't something the average person knew about, and overall it was a different world technically. Imagine if 5 years later Lutron would have came out with Ra3 and said nobody could use the old dimmers and that was the only way to use the app. The fact that Lutron added the Connect Bridge, updated all their dimmers, and gave new life to Ra2 showed customers that they could trust it. I really hope those people realize that Lutron has decades of trust with dealers and homeowners so in the long run, it's better to make people feel like they are investing in a Lutron product rather than just buying it and having to throw it away after 10 years.
Just yesterday I was at a Ra2 house that had been neglected by the original installer. The software was 4 years out of date, none of the timers worked, etc. and all it took to make a customer who thought Lutron was junk was to spend a few hours to making programming changes, fix the horrid programming (Half the loads in the house were in the closet both physically and in the software), and install a connect bridge to bring the system up to date. Now it's like they have a new system and love the system. That's the Lutron I like. Get out of the way of the engineers and let them make great products!
Totally agree. The lighting automation world of 2022 is completely different than 2010 or earlier. Yet Lutron doesn't seem to be willing to change much. Maybe that's their most profitable path. But sure to be tested in the next few years. Installing dealers should probably look to change their models too. They add value and should charge for design/support. Not rely on high hardware markups.
fully agree, Lutron dont be another crestron. you are the best keep leading.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyCoog
also a licensing upgrade would be more profitable since it would mean less overhead and more market penetration.
Completely agree. The lighting automation landscape of 2022 is drastically different from that of 2010 and earlier. However, Lutron appears unwilling to make significant changes. Perhaps this is their most lucrative path. But will be tried in the next years.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyCoog
As proof of your theory look at the Pico. It can be used in Caseta, RA2 Select, RadioRA 2, RadioRA 3, HQS, QSX, Grafik Eye QS, Sivoia QS and probably some of the commercial lines. It even works with Sonos!Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyCoog
I've been told that Lutron doesn't want the various systems competing with each other. They position RadioRA so it is not compatible with HomeWorks and does not take away HomeWorks sales.
Lutron is the only Manufacturer I work with that does this. Every other manufacturer has 1 system and you upgrade processors for larger systems. It's very frustrating.
I've been saying this to anyone who will listen. All of their wallbox dimmers have the same tech built into them. Why not consolidate to 1 sku for dimmer and create a licensing scheme for homeowners/dealers. Homeowner buys dimmer from HD (Casesta) then wants the dimmer count to go over 30 in the home (for example). It would require a higher level dealer to expand device count, control options, upgraded keypads, etc. Then if you want logic (Homeworks), you need a different device license to unlock additional device count, aesthetic options, etc. It would allow an upgrade path without forcing you to throw equipment away and you can scale from box stores to their high end finishes.
Regarding the Ketra upgrade, I was told never. Ketra is considered their top end product and low end non-trained dealers would have no idea how to implement it properly.
The economy of scale of having a single SKU vs 3 or 4 would offset the cost. I had an issue where Lutron sent an actual engineer to the site. He had a program to communicate directly with the devices (outside of the RA2 program) and update the firmware. So I'm sure this can be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewski300
I don't think you would need to do the licensing thing. You would select the processor (Caseta, RA2/3, HomeWorks) based on the device count and other factors (logic, remote power panels, Ketra integration, etc.). Lutron already has the controls in place to determine who can buy which processors.
The average homeowner doesn't know or understand the difference. I'd bet folding money that most of them suspect we really didn't change the dimmer at all but just charged them more money.