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I'm using a MSCL?OP153MH occupancy dimmer switch with a single Philips 433227 light bulb, and when I try to turn the light off, it does not turn off completely, but rather flickers at a low intensity. The grounding wire is connected to the house ground, and I've tried wiring the load wires both ways, still just flickers. I have to pull out the service switch to get it to turn off.
I've taken a video of the phenomenon: http://youtu.be/pyqHkVA74QQ
Bracket, thank you for your post. The MSCL-OP153M is a digital control which always needs power. Even in the off state, there is a very small amount of electrical current that runs through the circuit. Some LEDs react to this by not turning completely off. During compatibility testing, that is one of the test criteria that we look for and, if an LED doesn't turn completely off, it would typically not pass our testing and be listed as compatible. We would recommend using an LED that appears on the Compatible Bulb List for the control that you are using.
That is pretty lame... How much current is it drawing (at all times apparently)? Would adding more bulbs help? It would be nice if it used the ground wire for power return like some other switches I've used.
Since there is no industry standard for the manufacturing of LEDs, it can be very frustrating with the varying performance that LEDs experience. You could try adding more bulbs, however the only solution that we can stand behind are the ones that appear on our Compatible Bulb List.
I'm not sure this is a very comforting answer. So you are essentially saying that your dimmer even when OFF is consuming power. And it's the LED bulbs fault that it detects it? Instead of a compatibility chart, shouldn't you just warn people that the dimmer leaks? And I bet the leak caused by the LED indicator lamp that is always on, on the dimmer switch itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Am I right?
AndyC, the current draw in the off state is .15W. Because the Maestro is a digital control, it needs power on the circuit when it is off. If there wasn't, when you hit the tapswitch to turn it on, nothing would happen as there is not a physical relay inside the dimmer. Compatibility is more than just an LED reacting to the dimmer in the off state. When we do compatibility testing, we test for several different things, including LEDs not turning off. Our Compatible Bulb List shows the LEDs that passed all of our compatibility testing.
This is truly a non-standardization issue, not a Lutron issue. Some LED manufacturers are simply labeling their lamps as dimmable without listing "compatible" dimmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I agree with Pete that the best way to determine compatibility is through Lutron's compatibility chart. I have had zero issues when referencing it!
I understand why there's current running through it. The point is that if you did use a relay then it would be truly LED compatible. You do realize that even the LED Compatible bulbs you list will deteriorate faster and are possible fire hazards by having this low current running through it 24/7 when its supposed to be switched off. I think its great that Lutron addresses these things but you need to be careful because people like Troltgen just jump on a bandwagon without any understanding of the topic and will be quick to defend what you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
This all being said, I use Lutron and the other L brand for all dimmers. I came here to look for a LED dimmer that does indeed use a physical switch or relay to turn on and off, and has the proper dimming circuitry for LED drivers. Can you make a suggestion? I don't need night time indicator lamps or "digital" control.
Thanks
AndyC, having a physical or electronic relay is not what determines compatibility. Compatibility is determined by how the LEDs react to the dimming signal that the dimmer creates. There are several different LEDs that are compatible with the MSCL-OP153M. Fortunately, all of our products, including our digital dimmers, are tested and pass safety testing by UL, which is an independent testing facility. There is absolutely no fire hazard caused by the the .15W of current that runs through the circuit and the life of the LEDs on our Compatible Bulb List is not cut short by this either. The bulbs on this are compatible and turn off when the Maestro is in the off state.
If you would like a C•L dimmer that has a physical relay and a bulb that has passed testing with that dimmer, please refer to our Compatible Bulb List. Our analog C•L options are the DVCL-153P, TGCL-153P, SCL-153P, CTCL-153P, AYCL-153P and the LGCL-153P.
I had same problem and the quick fix for me was keeping (1) regular bulb in the dim chain. So I had 5 LED's and 1 incandescent bulb and the flicker stopped instantly. Down side is one bulb is slightly off color.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bracket
I am late joining this debate. I have Litetouch dimmers, and installed 9 Philips LED lamps on one dimmed circuit. When I switched the circuit on, all LEDs came on and dimmed properly. When I switched the circuit off, one of the 9 lamps remained lit, extremely dimmed. I then took one Philips LED out, replaced it with a traditional incandescent, and everything worked fine.
It would appear that even in its off position, the dimmer passes some current through the circuit, sufficient to low-light at least one LED (randomly). With one incandescent in the circuit, it appears the low current passes through the incandescent lamp, but cannot light it, because its resistance is too high.
Can the whole problem not be solved by installing a small resistor in the circuit, which does what the incandescent lamp does for me.
Comments? Specific suggestions?
Would it be possible to use a LUT-MLC in 1 of the fixtures to get rid of the faint glow? Like the previous post suggesting a resistor or 1 incandescent. Does anybody know if this would work?
cabethesda- The LUT-MLC is the "shunt capacitor" that Lutron sends only with the switch. When I called Tech, they did not recommend it for dimmers.
I have the same problem with Philips 9290002706 which is listed as compatible (A19 SlimStyle, Daylight, 5000K, 450 Lumen, E26, 40W equivalent)
What's the solution then?
ps: BTW, the same happens also with 9290002709 (A19 SlimStyle, Daylight, 5000K, 450 Lumen, E26, 60W equivalent)
Anybody from Lutron to comment?Quote:
Originally Posted by gleudson
Pete F.?
Really? That is the reason? i have to agree, this is lame. Returning product. Guess got to go with analog dimmer.Quote:
Originally Posted by gleudson
I was also in the same problem as the Bracket is now. As per my experience actually MSCL-OP153M always needs power as it is a digital control even in the off state. Always a small amount of electrical current flows through the circuit.
in some cases some LEDs react to this by not turning completely off. During compatibility testing, that is one of the test criteria that we look for and, if an LED doesn't turn completely off, it would typically not pass our testing and be listed as compatible.
Then it should be listed on the box to check compatibly before buying, rather than having some general compatibility note...Quote:
Originally Posted by BetteDuke
I just stumbled on this after installing several Lutron Caseta Dimmers for use with my Amazon Echo. Same issue with all of them. Lights will only dim and not turn off. I've adjusted the lowend settings per the instructions. Nowhere on the box does it indicate you need "special" bulbs. I wish I tested one before installing them all (my fault). I assumed after the first one wouldn't turn off all the way, that it just required an adjustment and I moved on. Just finished ripping them all out and I will return them tomorrow. The excuses here make no sense to me. I understand the need to have power for them to work, but why must you output that power to the bulb? I assume it's because you don't use a neutral wire that you need the power to actually flow to the light. Build a better circuit. Require a Neutral if you must. This is just poor design plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by gleudson
That works! Not perfect but works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke_snyder
Is it still safe to leave the bulb in although it is always in a dimmer state when off?
Yes, there is no safety concern with leaving the LEDs glow a little bit in the off state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason.Wells
Does using a dimmer that requires a neutral like the ELV compatible Caseta PD-5NE-WH solve the issue with bulbs that don't handle the small amount of voltage when the digital switch is off ? It's a pricey solution ($100) compared to just keeping 1 incandescant in the chain but avoids the issue of 1 bulb looking different. (I'm probably going to test this in the next day or so)
Thanks!
It often helps, but there is no guarantee. We have seen cases where the PD-5NE will still glow in the off state. This is often fixed with the LUT-MLC shunt capacitor. This capacitor should not be used with any other Caseta dimmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by eliotw
Thanks for the advice. The PD-5NE improved the dimming a lot with less flickering at low levels but it didn't eliminate the flickering when the incandescent was removed from the circuit. I added a LUT-MLC and it completely fixed the issue and I was able to remove the incandescent from the circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jai H.
Thanks again!